Inference

@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

The books of the bible are full of allegory,metaphor and hyperbole. I just was wondering if anyone could give me their opinion as to why?

Good question; applicable to many ancient writings...[INDENT]My attempt at Objectively: No clue. How can anyone come close to knowing the personalities who wrote this stuff thousands of years ago, thousands of miles away living in societies whose norms we can only guess at. Much evidence exists and some inference can be drawn; however, it is only presumption that says "Oh, yea we know!" - we don't. In other words (and metaphorically speaking of course), we don't even know the color of the skies in these people's world.
[/INDENT][INDENT]My Guess: I've always believed it has to do with the way myth has always been handed down; stories - though quite possibly based in fact - get embellished, exaggerated and are made to "come alive" with "the moral of the story is"-attributions added. What was scribed doesn't necessarily have much to do with what was said, done or what necessarily happened. "Poetic License", throughout much of ancient history, was commonly taken by those actually recording this or that.
[/INDENT]Thanks

1 Reply

@Khethil,

My thought would be because of the nature of spiritual truths. It would seem they are best expressed through metaphor, as human language does not have suitable terms for explicit expression of spirituality.

1 Reply

@WithoutReason,

YO!

When you do not have the answer/s to that great mystery there is little choice but to use metaphor, obscurity and pretense, for their ambition was to make concrete that which is transcendent and beyond the human intellect. "Those whom say they know, do not know, those whom know that they do not know, know." The Upanishads

2 Replies

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

YO!:)When you do not have the answer/s to that great mystery there is little choice but to use metaphor, obscurity and pretense, for their ambition was to make concrete that which is transcendent and beyond the human intellect. "Those whom say they know, do not know, those whom know that they do not know, know." The Upanishads

Boagie, my friend! :bigsmile:

You always express the dimmest view of such things! You admit that the topic is "that great mystery" but then you accuse the writers of obscurity and pretense and trying to "make concrete that which is transcendent and beyond the human intellect."

Should no one talk about such things at all? Is there any appropriate means of expression? The writers are wrong for even trying?

1 Reply

@Elmud,

Elmud;50864 wrote:

The books of the bible are full of allegory,metaphor and hyperbole. I just was wondering if anyone could give me their opinion as to why?

Because, at times, that is the best and often only means of communicating something.
Especially when;
"To speak, is to lie!" -Rene' Guinon
And;
"Those who know, don't speak; who speak, don't know!" -Lao Tsu

It leaves room for 'personal interpretation' (understanding) at whatever depth of understanding one enjoys at the moment.

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@Dichanthelium,

Dichanthelium wrote:

Boagie, my friend! :bigsmile:

You always express the dimmest view of such things! You admit that the topic is "that great mystery" but then you accuse the writers of obscurity and pretense and trying to "make concrete that which is transcendent and beyond the human intellect."

Should no one talk about such things at all? Is there any appropriate means of expression? The writers are wrong for even trying?

Dichanthelium, Smile

No they are not wrong for trying, but when they take their metaphors for the end in itself, then it does not really give us anymore of the answer, yet closes the door to wonder. Those whom say they know, do not know. I think one should realize in ones speculations that concrete explanations will never do, it is true that poetry can sometimes go passed the word and perhaps give us a sense of the sublime, but literalism kills.

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

YO!

When you do not have the answer/s to that great mystery there is little choice but to use metaphor, obscurity and pretense, for their ambition was to make concrete that which is transcendent and beyond the human intellect. "Those whom say they know, do not know, those whom know that they do not know, know." The Upanishads

Would you apply this principle to parables as well?

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@Elmud,

Several reasons: one, when you are talking about that which transcends language, you have no choice but to use figurative language.
Second, because that's what makes good literature!

1 Reply

@Elmud,

Elmud wrote:

Would you apply this principle to parables as well?

Elmud,

Well as DT says in the above post, there are reasons for the use of these things just in the formation of literature. Parables are reasonably straight forward, the only place a problem arises is when the metaphor is taken literally, as where the term god is it, a denotation, the whole ball of wax, no need for further wonder. The body of the virgin Mary, literally ascending to heaven, and heaven as literal place with longitude and latitude.

1 Reply

@boagie,

Right, once you mistake figurative language for literal language you have mistaken the finger for the moon: it's idolatry.

Which is why I have never understood your constant opposition to religion, boagie. You understand that literal readings of scripture are misguided, yet you criticize religion as if all religious understandings were based on literal reading.

1 Reply

@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas wrote:

Several reasons: one, when you are talking about that which transcends language, you have no choice but to use figurative language.
Second, because that's what makes good literature!

Kind of agree with you partially. Not many would think of do not judge a book by its cover when reading about the she bears. Probably did not have too many books in those days.

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@Didymos Thomas,

Didymos Thomas, Smile

I do respect religion where it reads the symbolism properly, but that is not my experience of the majority of Christians, nor even of those ministers I have known over the years. Most Christians of my experience have a rather simple approach to their understanding. It is to bad as well because if it were not for this literal tendency the secular world would not fear them as much as they do, and finding them involved in politics would not be nearly as disturbing. The bible would not be my first choice as a wisdom text, but it certainly has some areas in which it shines. I think Christians like yourself should when discussing the faith with other Chrsitians point out this rather rampant literalism.

1 Reply

@boagie,

boagie wrote:

I do respect religion where it reads the symbolism properly, but that is not my experience of the majority of Christians, nor even of those ministers I have known over the years. ....

I have to agree that the vast majority of expressions of Christianity throughout history have gone on a track that actually runs counter to the spirit and teachings of Jesus. So I guess it's only natural when folks judge Christianity on the basis of its most predominant appearances. On the other hand, I think it's also fair to ask critics to resist the impulse toward prejudice. John Doe's Christianity is a farce. That doesn't necessarily mean that the next Christian I encounter is also an imposter, nor does it reflect on Christianity itself--defined as the spirit and teachings of Christ.

There's another phenomenon at work, I think. Not surprisingly, anyone who was indoctrinated into one of these errant forms, then later broke free from it, looks back upon it with a certain disdain. Here again, it seems good to notice a distinction between the spirit and teachings of Christ, and the various errant conventions that have evolved from that moment in history.

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@boagie,

boagie wrote:

Dichanthelium,

No they are not wrong for trying, but when they take their metaphors for the end in itself, then it does not really give us anymore of the answer, yet closes the door to wonder. Those whom say they know, do not know. I think one should realize in ones speculations that concrete explanations will never do, it is true that poetry can sometimes go passed the word and perhaps give us a sense of the sublime, but literalism kills.

Let's join forces against the literalists, the fundamentalists, but appreciate those poets and weavers of tales, from whatever epoch, that direct our attention to these sublime and ultimate truths and mysteries.

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