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Ultimate truth?

 
 
Elmud
 
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 07:05 pm
My daughter is taking philosophy this semester in college. I told her that finally we have a common interest in something. However, I do not want to impose my beliefs about things on her. I want her to enjoy the freedom of her own thoughts about things without my influence. I do not want to throw any thought bombs in her path which could impede her on her own journey. I want her to have the chance to exercise her own mind and have the opportunity to develop her own individuality.

If there is an ultimate truth, what would be gained and what would be lost if that truth were revealed to humanity? What would become of our privilege to stretch our thoughts and exercise our mind? Would we lose our sense of wonder about things? If all of the answers of the wherefore and the why about things were given to us, where would we go from there? Would we lapse into a vegetative state of mind where there were no more challenges of thought?

I remember a famous line from a movie where Jack Nicholson said, "you can't handle the truth". I'm not sure I could and I really would not want to try.

The beauty of philosophy and religion is that mankind has the opportunity to work his imagination and hone his skills of thought .The body requires exercise to maintain its health. The mind of man requires exercise as well to insure a healthy state. Without mental activities which challenge our thought processes and push us to the limits of learning, I'm sure we would all develop dementia.

Is there an ultimate truth? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure I really care. The gift of not knowing anything is precious, and the evolution of thought can proceed unimpeded by reaching the summit too soon.
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Maestro
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 07:13 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:

If there is an ultimate truth, what would be gained and what would be lost if that truth were revealed to humanity? What would become of our privilege to stretch our thoughts and exercise our mind? Would we lose our sense of wonder about things? If all of the answers of the wherefore and the why about things were given to us, where would we go from there? Would we lapse into a vegetative state of mind where there were no more challenges of thought? I remember a famous line from a movie where Jack Nicholson said, "you can't handle the truth". I'm not sure I could and I really would not want to try.


Doesn't that all depend on what the ultimate truth turned out to be?


Quote:
The beauty of philosophy and religion is that mankind has the opportunity to work his imagination and hone his skills of thought .The body requires exercise to maintain its health. The mind of man requires exercise as well to insure a healthy state. Without mental activities which challenge our thought processes and push us to the limits of learning, I'm sure we would all develop dementia.
Even if we found out the ultimate truth, it would not necessarily stop us from using our brains. Songs, instrumentation, books, works of art.. all would still be creatable. Creativity is an endlessly overflowing fountain of mental exercise for our minds.

Quote:
Is there an ultimate truth? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure I really care. The gift of not knowing anything is precious, and the evolution of thought can proceed unimpeded by reaching the summit too soon.
Define what you mean by "ultimate truth".
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 07:47 pm
@Elmud,
Yeah, it's good to allow your daughter that room and not force your philosophy upon her. I think philosophy really starts with a seed of desire to go deeper.

Elmud wrote:
Is there an ultimate truth? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure I really care. The gift of not knowing anything is precious, and the evolution of thought can proceed unimpeded by reaching the summit too soon.


I tend to think there is an ultimate truth and it lies within humankind. Our perceptions form our truths and individually unto their own. So your truth and your daughter's truth will never be the same. I observe TRUTH as an individual experience in a collective consciousness... not everyone agrees.

In the end Elmud, your daughter will know her truth by the truth that you have shown her during your life. We don't realize just how much we influence those around us which again is in support of that collective Universal consciousness referred to as God or other names.

Good having you on the forums Elmud!
0 Replies
 
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2009 11:12 pm
@Maestro,
I guess my definition of ultimate truth would be the factual answers to the questions of "how things came into being , and why things are the way they are."
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 05:50 am
@Elmud,
Ide have to disagree with it on principle or just to be bloody awkward.My ultimate truth is not your ultimate truth:rolleyes:I dont think its possible not to influence your children , all my children are staunch atheists. Did i influence them? no doubt about it..I did send them to church of england primary school as a balance.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 06:26 am
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
My daughter is taking philosophy this semester in college. I told her that finally we have a common interest in something. However, I do not want to impose my beliefs about things on her. I want her to enjoy the freedom of her own thoughts about things without my influence. I do not want to throw any thought bombs in her path which could impede her on her own journey. I want her to have the chance to exercise her own mind and have the opportunity to develop her own individuality.

If there is an ultimate truth, what would be gained and what would be lost if that truth were revealed to humanity? What would become of our privilege to stretch our thoughts and exercise our mind? Would we lose our sense of wonder about things? If all of the answers of the wherefore and the why about things were given to us, where would we go from there? Would we lapse into a vegetative state of mind where there were no more challenges of thought?

I remember a famous line from a movie where Jack Nicholson said, "you can't handle the truth". I'm not sure I could and I really would not want to try.

The beauty of philosophy and religion is that mankind has the opportunity to work his imagination and hone his skills of thought .The body requires exercise to maintain its health. The mind of man requires exercise as well to insure a healthy state. Without mental activities which challenge our thought processes and push us to the limits of learning, I'm sure we would all develop dementia.

Is there an ultimate truth? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm not sure I really care. The gift of not knowing anything is precious, and the evolution of thought can proceed unimpeded by reaching the summit too soon.


This is easy: truth is life; and ultimate truth is all life, especially human life....And Jack was right: Most people can't handle it, and are rather, badly handled by life...

Dementia is what all people begin with in the magic and mystery of childhood, and this includes religion; and philosophy is usually a way out of it...

Just tell your kid that no matter what she is talking about, it is a form of relationship...Forms are the way we handle reality, the truth... Yet, we also relate through our forms just as we are talking with the help of a form called language... Everything is a form, and it is through forms that humanity progresses... For this reason they are mentioned in the Declaration of Independence...

We can only change but little what we are, but we can change our forms when they no longer work for us... Life is the truth because our basic needs of life cannot change...Most people know when they are not getting enough from life, when they do not have enough food or shelter, or they cannot afford to have a child...You may be coming face to face with the price of education... I am uneducated. The price I would not pay on one end I paid on the other...For that I own a pile of books....But consider; that all these things are forms: books, education, food, shelter, children... What we are we cannot deny... Nor can we project ourselves beyond our own lives...

In a sense, all exists because we exist, and perhaps this is the one place in all of creation where life exists... We live, and we die, but humanity exists; and for that reason all our actions should serve humanity, and all life...We serve our forms... We should make sure our forms serve us too, and do not only rob our lives of meaning, and time...Because time is life.
0 Replies
 
Justin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 07:32 am
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
I guess my definition of ultimate truth would be the factual answers to the questions of "how things came into being , and why things are the way they are."


Except there are none. Man has been seeking factual answers for thousands of years only to come up with more unanswerable questions and a stronger desire to find ultimate truth.
Elmud
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 04:04 pm
@Justin,
Justin wrote:
Except there are none. Man has been seeking factual answers for thousands of years only to come up with more unanswerable questions and a stronger desire to find ultimate truth.

Agreed. Can you imagine a world without all of the diversities of opinions and ideas about things? The mind of man is fascinating to me. Without all of the different philosophies and religious schools of thought, well, I guess would have to go fishing more.
Maestro
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 07:46 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud wrote:
Agreed. Can you imagine a world without all of the diversities of opinions and ideas about things? The mind of man is fascinating to me. Without all of the different philosophies and religious schools of thought, well, I guess would have to go fishing more.


Or less, because you know when you're fishing your mind wanders :sarcastic:.
0 Replies
 
Aedes
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 08:01 pm
@Elmud,
Elmud;47914 wrote:
I guess my definition of ultimate truth would be the factual answers to the questions of "how things came into being , and why things are the way they are."
The thing is, if you take a scientific approach to this question, it is ultimately unanswerable. Things at a quantum level happen probabilistically and not deterministically, and it's almost certain that if you picked any given point in the history of the universe, it would never turn out the same way twice.

Of course this is all unknowable. And so long as we're fixed in our own points of view, truth is something that's shared and not something that needs to be ultimate.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2009 09:14 pm
@Aedes,
Aedes; everybody already knows the answer... Science only adds certainty to confusion...
0 Replies
 
 

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