0
   

What happend before the Big Bang??

 
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 09:23 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;163421 wrote:
Can you stop being so personal? I am telling you what physicists do, and most of what they do is postulating unobservables. Why the hell do you blame me for stating the ******* facts? This is standard textbook material. Do you really want to play this game?

The masturbating god theory is a joke in reference to another post from a different poster.
So calling me naive with no knowledge of science or philosophy is your polite method of replying, is it? That's not being personal?

They, scientists, dont postulate , they give credible grounds for theorising. You are making claims without any foundation in facts. For example "a mother universe" where did she come from? is she in any scientific papers you might like to refer to or where else you gathered this information. What game exactly are we playing ?
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 09:36 am
@xris,
Laughing
xris;163433 wrote:
So calling me naive with no knowledge of science or philosophy is your polite method of replying, is it? That's not being personal?



I say your view is naive. Not you. Happy?


Quote:

They, scientists, dont postulate



what about Electrons, quarks, dark matter??

Quote:
You are making claims without any foundation in facts. For example "a mother universe" where did she come from? is she in any scientific papers you might like to refer to or where else you gathered this information. What game exactly are we playing ?


What game are you playing? Do you dispute that science postulate unobservables?

http://www.princeton.edu/~fraassen/abstract/Unobservables-web.pdf


I stated this 3 times now. I lean it at a class in philosophy of science class. I don ` t know what is your problem. Do dispute the mother universe hypothesis, or do you dispute that science postulates?
Leviathen249
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 10:35 am
@TuringEquivalent,
God shot a big red barrel. Now according to the laws of the universe, all red barrels must explode. This explosion was the Big Bang. Then God proceeded to walk away slowly, looking all cool. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 02:01 pm
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;163443 wrote:
Laughing

I say your view is naive. Not you. Happy?





what about Electrons, quarks, dark matter??



What game are you playing? Do you dispute that science postulate unobservables?

http://www.princeton.edu/~fraassen/abstract/Unobservables-web.pdf


I stated this 3 times now. I lean it at a class in philosophy of science class. I don ` t know what is your problem. Do dispute the mother universe hypothesis, or do you dispute that science postulates?
No im not happy with your remarks they are personal and I resent your attitude.

Electrons,quarks, dark matter have evidence to support their existence, where if any is there for your universe baring mother?

To postulate you must have adequate reasoning or evidence, you dont just conjure up things from nothing. You must be prepared to be questioned or denounced. I dont doubt science postulates but your not postulating, your inventing .
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 06:49 pm
@xris,
xris;163541 wrote:
No im not happy with your remarks they are personal and I resent your attitude.



Well, i am not happy with your remarks being so general, and typical nonsense of someone that does not know anything regarding this matter. I see that giving you the facts don` t shut you up. I wonder what would.


Quote:

Electrons,quarks, dark matter have evidence to support their existence, where if any is there for your universe baring mother?




The more important question is how many times do you want me to repeat it for you. You can take a course in philosophy of science, or you can listen to me. Electrons, quarks are never "observed directly". They are postulated in physics to explain what is observed. I am stated this for how many times?

Quote:

To postulate you must have adequate reasoning or evidence, you dont just conjure up things from nothing. You must be prepared to be questioned or denounced. I dont doubt science postulates but your not postulating, your inventing


Damn it. The "evidence" is indirect. The existence of quarks, and dark matter are never observed "directly", but their existence, and property help explain what is observed.

I said this for at least 10 times. Explain to me what is your problem?


http://www.units.muohio.edu/eduleadership/faculty/quantz/Courses/Beebee3.pdf

Quote:
Scientific theories claim, or at least seem to claim, that the universe is
populated by a host of entities that we cannot observe in any obvious sense: we have
genes, quarks, curved space-time, the superego (if you think psychoanalysis is a
science) etc. etc. Do we (including scientists) have any right to believe in such
entities? Scientific realists say yes - such entities really do exist - while anti-realists
say no. There are three basic positions which one can adopt on this issue:
Realism: We have very good reason to believe that the unobservable entities
postulated by well-confirmed theories exist.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 02:51 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;163640 wrote:
Well, i am not happy with your remarks being so general, and typical nonsense of someone that does not know anything regarding this matter. I see that giving you the facts don` t shut you up. I wonder what would.






The more important question is how many ******* times do you want me to repeat it for you. You can take a course in philosophy of science, or you can listen to me. Electrons, quarks are never "observed directly". They are postulated in physics to explain what is observed. I am stated this for how many times?



Damn it. The "evidence" is indirect. The existence of quarks, and dark matter are never observed "directly", but their existence, and property help explain what is observed.

I said this for at least 10 times. Explain to me what is your problem?


http://www.units.muohio.edu/eduleadership/faculty/quantz/Courses/Beebee3.pdf
You continue your abuse as if you had something of value to say but in fact all you have is some silly notion that there is a mother universe giving rise to this one. Electrons may not be seen but there is sufficient scientific evidence to say they do as there is for dark matter. With your silly idea on postulating, the devil and all his angels are factual and there is no need of proving the pink unicorn is the creator of all we see. You can ......... say it as many times as you please but your pregnant mother is your imagination and nothing more.
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 03:12 am
@xris,
xris;163798 wrote:
You continue your abuse as if you had something of value to say but in fact all you have is some silly notion that there is a mother universe giving rise to this one. Electrons may not be seen but there is sufficient scientific evidence to say they do as there is for dark matter. With your silly idea on postulating, the devil and all his angels are factual and there is no need of proving the pink unicorn is the creator of all we see. You can ......... say it as many times as you please but your pregnant mother is your imagination and nothing more.



What i say is in academic journals. It is in textbooks. The sources are the pdf i gave you. What the hell do you have? You have nothing. You have a big fat nothing.


You want evidence? Here:Is Our Universe Inside Another Larger Universe? | Universe Today

Did i shut you up?


How about this:What is scientific realism

Quote:
The issue of scientific realism has been one of the central hinges of debate within the philosophy of science for the past thirty years. The central issue is this: Do scientific theories and hypotheses refer to real but unobservable entities, forces, and relations?



I have sources to back up what i say. You have ****. Sorry. I win, and you lose. It looks like imagination is better.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 03:23 am
@TuringEquivalent,
TuringEquivalent;163807 wrote:
What i say is in academic journals. It is in textbooks. The sources are the pdf i gave you. What the hell do you have? You have nothing. You have a big fat nothing. high school graduate?


You want evidence? Here:Is Our Universe Inside Another Larger Universe? | Universe Today

Did i shut you up?


How about this:What is scientific realism




I have sources to back up what i say. You have ****. Sorry. I win, and you lose. It looks like imagination is better.
I think you have conclusively proven that debate with you is impossible. I refuse to debate with abuse.
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 03:29 am
@xris,
xris;163812 wrote:
I think you have conclusively proven that debate with you is impossible. I refuse to debate with abuse.



I did not abuse you. You abuse me by tell me that i don ` t know what i am talking about. What i say is in textbooks, and journals. What the hell do you want from me? How the hell do you insult me for stating the information in textbooks, and journals? How many times do you want me to repeat it for you?
Now, i have all the sources, and links, you have having nothing. You cannot provide a damn source to what you say. Where is your journals articles, and textbooks? You have nothing.
0 Replies
 
qualia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 07:35 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall wrote:
What was God doing before he created the world? The philosopher and writer (and later saint) Augustine posed the question in his "Confessions" in the fourth century, and then came up with a strikingly modern answer: before God created the world there was no time and thus no "before." To paraphrase Gertrude Stein, there was no "then" then.


Thank you for the excellent post, Alan. It read well and was very interesting. Of my own shoddy opinion , I believe it is wrong for anyone to conclude that there is scant reason to believe in a deity or any other kind of thing in existence before our universe began. It is reasonable to suppose that there are laws which started the universe, and it is equally reasonable to suppose that a supernatural entity initiated this entire process.

However, if there were events or entities in existence before the universe began, then we will never know of them, because they occurred outside the limits of the universe, outside the limits of time and space. As we cannot define phenomenon outside these limits, to describe such phenomenon is ultimately futile.

What happened before time and space cannot be put into words, cannot be conceived. This does not rule out any particular phenomenon that could have started the universe, but it does prevent us from ever knowing what that phenomenon is.

It bears little on your essay, but I wonder if a step from the psychological need and interest it may generate, is the attempt to define,
voice or name the initiator of the universe as a particular entity or set of given laws senseless as it is ultimately meaningless?
0 Replies
 
Alan McDougall
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 01:22 am
@Alan McDougall,
Hi All,

Modern astro physics state that nothing happened before the big bang, because the BB was a singularity that contained all of existence, before it emerged to become our beautiful universe
TuringEquivalent
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 01:32 am
@Alan McDougall,
Alan McDougall;165225 wrote:
Hi All,

Modern astro physics state that nothing happened before the big bang, because the BB was a singularity that contained all of existence, before it emerged to become our beautiful universe


Your comment is so uncritical. Do you even realize the word 'nothing' is being referred to the quantum void? It is not lateral nothing. It is something.
0 Replies
 
 

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