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Equality of Unequals

 
 
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2009 10:01 pm
All people are not equal naturally, even though formal indoctrinated equality may attempt to claim so within a "just" society. Some people are born strong, while others are born weaker relatively speaking. People differ by virtue of health, age, talent, intelligence and material means of life at their disposal. These differences my be trivial or highly important in terms of demands that are imposed upon them in everyday life.

Ironically, the notion of equality is often used for dealing with people on highly unequal terms: the same burdens are imposed on very disparate individuals who have very different abilities to deal with them. The "equal and exact" rights they require become meaningless for those who cannot exercise them because of physical or material liabilities. Thus, justice becomes very unequal in substance precisely because it is established in mere form through definition. Therefore, an inequality of equals may grow out of a society that deals with everyone as judicial equals without regard for their physical and mental conditions.

What this means is that for a truly just society, compensatory mechanisms need to be established in order to establish substantive equality. Irrespective of status, capacities, or even a willingness to contribute materially to the community, everyone must be entitled to basic means of life. These means can not be denied to anyone that is a member of the community.

The attempt to equalize unavoidable inequalities that no one has a control over, in fact, forms the point of departure for a free society. This takes an outlook that manifests itself in a sense of care, responsibility, and a decent concern for human and nonhuman beings whose suffering, plight, and difficulties can be lightened or removed by our intervention. This concept of the equality of unequals rests on emotional determinants such as a sense of sympathy, community, and a tradition that evokes a sense of solidarity. The libertarian notion of what usually passes for justice, "exact and equal," is woefully inadequate to form the foundations for the ideal of freedom. For people to freely realize their potentialities and achive fulfillment presupposes that these very potentialities are realizable because society lives by an ethic of the equality of unequals.

Anyway, there are my thoughts on the concept of justice that is required for a society based on the ideal of freedom. Any thoughts, comments, or objections?
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Mr Fight the Power
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 06:07 am
@Theaetetus,
Theaetetus wrote:
All people are not equal naturally, even though formal indoctrinated equality may attempt to claim so within a "just" society. Some people are born strong, while others are born weaker relatively speaking. People differ by virtue of health, age, talent, intelligence and material means of life at their disposal. These differences my be trivial or highly important in terms of demands that are imposed upon them in everyday life.

Ironically, the notion of equality is often used for dealing with people on highly unequal terms: the same burdens are imposed on very disparate individuals who have very different abilities to deal with them. The "equal and exact" rights they require become meaningless for those who cannot exercise them because of physical or material liabilities. Thus, justice becomes very unequal in substance precisely because it is established in mere form through definition. Therefore, an inequality of equals may grow out of a society that deals with everyone as judicial equals without regard for their physical and mental conditions.

What this means is that for a truly just society, compensatory mechanisms need to be established in order to establish substantive equality. Irrespective of status, capacities, or even a willingness to contribute materially to the community, everyone must be entitled to basic means of life. These means can not be denied to anyone that is a member of the community.

The attempt to equalize unavoidable inequalities that no one has a control over, in fact, forms the point of departure for a free society. This takes an outlook that manifests itself in a sense of care, responsibility, and a decent concern for human and nonhuman beings whose suffering, plight, and difficulties can be lightened or removed by our intervention. This concept of the equality of unequals rests on emotional determinants such as a sense of sympathy, community, and a tradition that evokes a sense of solidarity. The libertarian notion of what usually passes for justice, "exact and equal," is woefully inadequate to form the foundations for the ideal of freedom. For people to freely realize their potentialities and achive fulfillment presupposes that these very potentialities are realizable because society lives by an ethic of the equality of unequals.

Anyway, there are my thoughts on the concept of justice that is required for a society based on the ideal of freedom. Any thoughts, comments, or objections?


Why should people be substantively equal? In modern interdependent society, your "compensatory mechanisms" necessarily requires the subjugation of some moral subjects to become the means to others ends.

What about a person's natural potentials serves as justification for the forceful application of their means to another's ends, and to what extent does this mirror slavery?
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 01:06 pm
@Mr Fight the Power,
Quote:
The attempt to equalize unavoidable inequalities that no one has a control over, in fact, forms the point of departure for a free society. This takes an outlook that manifests itself in a sense of care, responsibility, and a decent concern for human and nonhuman beings whose suffering, plight, and difficulties can be lightened or removed by our intervention. This concept of the equality of unequals rests on emotional determinants such as a sense of sympathy, community, and a tradition that evokes a sense of solidarity. The libertarian notion of what usually passes for justice, "exact and equal," is woefully inadequate to form the foundations for the ideal of freedom. For people to freely realize their potentialities and achive fulfillment presupposes that these very potentialities are realizable because society lives by an ethic of the equality of unequals.


Doesn't this just set up a different kind of elitist inequality? "Oh we feel so much sympathy for those who are naturally unable to take advantage of equal rights laws. Oh we are so charitable." This is simply the rationalization for an elite class once again granting a marginalized class their "inalienable rights". It encroaches on many of the same Entitlement arguments now used against the ultra-liberal. Would solidarity really be galvanized in the community? The people who are "more equal" than others, how are they going to change their elite status of I'm elite because I'm better than you to I'm elite because I'm better than you?
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 01:53 pm
@GoshisDead,
Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
Why should people be substantively equal? In modern interdependent society, your "compensatory mechanisms" necessarily requires the subjugation of some moral subjects to become the means to others ends.


The way the current structure of modern interdependent society, requires the subjugation of many moral subjects to become the means to other's ends, or at least have to put up with an inequitable distribution of resources. Take someone that lives in a neighborhood that has a toxic waste site put in near their property. They have little means to escape the neighborhood because they property is unsellable, and the value of the property will plumet forcing them to stay. They have to put up with the environmental hazard so others can not put up with it. These are where the compensatory mechanisms would come into play. Either the property owner or the community as a whole should be compensated for having to put up with an inequitable environmental burden. Under this senario the burden property owners do not share the same freedoms as people that live away from the toxic site because they are forced to live with an unjust distribution of ecological hazard.

Mr. Fight the Power wrote:
What about a person's natural potentials serves as justification for the forceful application of their means to another's ends, and to what extent does this mirror slavery?

Who said anything about a forceful application? Sure their would need to be laws passed so the less well off are compensated for having to put up with inequitable distribution of resources and hazards, but this is hardly considered force. This has absolutely nothing to do with slavery. It has to do with upholding justice in the name of the ideals of freedom. If people want to live in a truly just society, where people are free to choose, and enjoy their environments, then there must be ways to compensate for those burdened by inequitable distribution due to spacial considerations.

GoshisDead wrote:
Doesn't this just set up a different kind of elitist inequality? "Oh we feel so much sympathy for those who are naturally unable to take advantage of equal rights laws. Oh we are so charitable." This is simply the rationalization for an elite class once again granting a marginalized class their "inalienable rights". It encroaches on many of the same Entitlement arguments now used against the ultra-liberal. Would solidarity really be galvanized in the community? The people who are "more equal" than others, how are they going to change their elite status of I'm elite because I'm better than you to I'm elite because I'm better than you?


My conceptualization has nothing to do with entitlement or elite status, but rather as a means of limiting their possiblities. As things stand now, many people are entitled to better environments and living conditions at the expense of others based on living locations. But those people are more responsible for the reasons why others are forced to live in less than desirable conditions due to pollution. By compensating the less fortunate through either health care, clean up costs, community investment, education, or through paying the community with stipends (much as Alaska pays residents for oil), a more just society can be formed.

This has to do with responsibility and justice. There is no reason that people should be marginalized without compensation by those who are better off.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 02:42 pm
@Theaetetus,
Didn't the Soviets theortically already try that?
Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 04:54 pm
@GoshisDead,
GoshisDead wrote:
Didn't the Soviets theortically already try that?


Not thank I am aware of. Can you explain?
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 05:10 pm
@Theaetetus,
Quote:
My conceptualization has nothing to do with entitlement or elite status, but rather as a means of limiting their possiblities. As things stand now, many people are entitled to better environments and living conditions at the expense of others based on living locations. But those people are more responsible for the reasons why others are forced to live in less than desirable conditions due to pollution. By compensating the less fortunate through either health care, clean up costs, community investment, education, or through paying the community with stipends (much as Alaska pays residents for oil), a more just society can be formed.

This has to do with responsibility and justice. There is no reason that people should be marginalized without compensation by those who are better off.


Whether the conceptualization has nothing to do with an elite status or not doesn't mean one wont be created. It is the classic 'welfare state'/teach a man to fish argument. The downfall of most socialist ideals is that they fail to take into account human nature/ or if you don't believe in a human nature, they don't bother to look at history. Every political system ever employed created an elite class and a dependent class. This simply turns the elite class from the capitalist "slave drivers" to the socialist "benefactors". Instead of them being forced to work for barely enough money they will be treated to an equal share they didn't "earn" Either way the less competent people will be dependent on the more competent people. The more competent people will likely be upset that they are footing the bill of the less competent people. There is a reason their are things like the Nobel Peace Prize, it is because people who truely excel in the ways required to make a real socialist system work with equality are so rare that they merit a prize of such stature. This isn't even broaching other ethical concerns that are liable to be subject to corruption, such as reification of who is qualified to be a benefactor, competent people not pulling their weight so that they can get an equal share without working. and charity distribution.
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Theaetetus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 07:04 pm
@Theaetetus,
I think many of the issues and problems with socialism arise due to the scale at which many socialist practices are implemented. For example, the Soviet Union was way too large for its own good, and tried to govern too diverse of a population in too many geographic regions essentially the same. This leads to policies that are not suited for certain communities while they may work in others. This may also be why socialism in Sweden seemed to work better than most. It is a relatively small region, and thus, a more uniform community.

So what I am getting at is that justice is very place and community orientated, and cannot be dictated universally. I think this is the dilemma the United States is currently facing. The federal government has become way too powerful, and by treating everyone in the entire country as mere judicial equals, justice ceases to exist because many people are entitled to enjoy more benefits at the expense of others from very different regions and locals. In other words, justice is a universal concern, but can only be implemented at the local or community level.
GoshisDead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Apr, 2009 07:15 pm
@Theaetetus,
Still not on board but I agree with the Soviet analysis. Lol but like you need me aboard.
0 Replies
 
 

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