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What is Democracy, is Democracy Possible?

 
 
Holiday20310401
 
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Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 12:06 pm
@incubusman8,
incubusman8 wrote:
I always saw social characteristics as a product of environment and experience; political characteristics of a society having a large impact on this.


Yes I agree, but political characteristics not directly caused by the environment unless the environment is the social conditions/influences.
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incubusman8
 
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Reply Mon 22 Dec, 2008 06:05 pm
@Holiday20310401,
^ Precisely my meaning.
Dewey phil
 
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Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 03:59 pm
@incubusman8,
"How elementary can you get?" That was my reaction upon seeing the title of this discussion. Surely, I thought, nearly everyone has a pretty clear idea of what a democracy is and whether it can actually exist.

Now, after looking through these discussions, I still think the questions are elementary but I'm not at all sure that we commonly know the answers.

This discussion may have aimed to go beyond the simple scope indicated by its title. It includes distinctions between "social concept" and "political definition" and qualitative opinions about "apathy" and hypocrites". I tried to understand these subtleties. My failure to do so may well be due to my own ignorance, but in any event it led to these simplified answers.

A democracy is a system of government in which the people rule. Each decision that needs to be made is made by the people in toto. It is also known as a "direct democracy" or a "pure democracy" The United States and other governments commonly called "democracies" in reality are republics. A republic is a system of government in which the people choose representatives who, in turn, make policy decisions in their behalf.

Democracy or, if you wish, "pure" democracy is possible. It existed in ancient Greece cities. But history has shown it is tenable only in small groups of people. It doesn't work in large groups and, as the Founding Fathers warned, it has and can produce much harm. Those men would be troubled (as I am) by the elements of "pure democracy" creeping into the operation of our republic these days - such as the provision in many states for ballot initiatives or referendums allowing people to make policy decisions directly by vote.

Maybe the above is kindergarten stuff to you. If so, I apologize.
Holiday20310401
 
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Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 05:39 pm
@Dewey phil,
Dewey wrote:


A democracy is a system of government in which the people rule. Each decision that needs to be made is made by the people in toto. It is also known as a "direct democracy" or a "pure democracy"


If we want to call it that though, then it is a matter of how society perceives themselves and democracy would just be a state of social behaviour. The public can always have power over the government. It's just a matter of perception. The public can however not have control over the government.
Dewey phil
 
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Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 10:53 pm
@Holiday20310401,
I'm still confused, Holiday. You distinguish "power" from "control" : I see them as synonyms for each other. Perhaps you are referring to "power" as being limited and "control" as being unlimited. But is this distinction even relevant in a discussion of "pure" democracy? By definition, its public (the people) has unlimited control over the government. We can even say, can't we, that in this case the public is the government?
Holiday20310401
 
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Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2008 10:59 pm
@Dewey phil,
Power is a measure of someone's ability to control the environment, but if one doesn't know their own potential then who's the ones controlling the ones with the real power right? The public always has the power, but they have no control because they are not brought up to be aware of such. Public has no control, it is controlled, but it remains powerful.
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EmperorNero
 
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Reply Wed 22 Apr, 2009 10:09 am
@Holiday20310401,
Democracy is a system of government that offers the potential of majority vote altering policy.
If the system openly states that it does not allow the majority vote to decide on certain policies, that is a republic.
If the system does restrict certain options to be voted for without stating that openly, I call that a sham-democracy, probably a oligarchy.
I would point out european nations as an example.
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