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The Meaning of Randomness Escapes the Mind

 
 
Reply Thu 30 Oct, 2008 07:31 pm
Just a thought. As long as we are aware of the environment, we can never have pure randomness in reality. Not even in the quantum world, which must seem random because it is foreign to the normative perception.

The only way to have complete randomness is in actuality where the consciousness has no potential on it, perception lacks awareness.

For example, and it may be weak because I have no clue whether this applies to everybody or if it's just me but here goes. Say you draw two boxes. Each one is say, 3 by 3 inches.

In one box you draw lines around the box fast enough so that the deterministic subconscious decisions made by the brain cannot be countered by the conscious thought so as to see patterns to potentiate future lines to draw. Also, these are straight lines and all connecting to eachother, bouncing off the walls of the box. However the rule is that the lines do not bounce off the walls of the box definitively, like light or something. The idea is to be random.

In the second box, you draw lines in the same way, bouncing off the walls in a non-definitive way, but this time you draw then slow enough to have conscious input so as to be able to discern patterns and such. Since the idea is to be random, you ask yourself how to be random, and by doing this all you are doing is causing the potential for the vectors to be predicted and connected via a complex equation. By taking realization into a false motive of the lines drawn, the mind may try to use the patterns conceived for the seeming advantage of producing randomness. For instance, what happened to me was I would draw three lines or so and take into account the rough angles that were resulting in relation to the walls of the box. Then in the context of being random (even though it can't be so, notice the paradox), I would try to differentiate the next line from the perceptions I conceived during the lapse of time I was able to realize the functions of the other lines.

The result of box 1 is as random as humanly possible. The reason why it may not be random is because the lines may be drawn based on some syntactual habit, such as drawing lots of ray diagrams in the past. The result of box 2 is symmetry.

Randomness doesn't come synthetically.

So consciousness is really just the mind in that it is a contextual process converting data into information.

Actuality has to be monistic and absolutely random because absolute randomness is as intrinsic as you can get, and if actuality was dualistic at all then actuality could be inherent on it's own reciprocity.
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Sir Neuron
 
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Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 12:16 am
@Holiday20310401,
You speak eloquently, If I may say. Can I say this relates to the chaos theory and the butterfly theory?
Holiday20310401
 
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Reply Sun 2 Nov, 2008 09:59 am
@Sir Neuron,
I suppose the inputs that have potential on the decision making process could be compared to as butterflies flapping their wings influencing the other side of the world.
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sarek
 
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Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 07:33 am
@Holiday20310401,
Where you say 'I decide to draw' what then is the 'I' that decides?

How can you be sure that the decision making process in inside your own brain has no random qualities to it?
How do you know the butterfly inside your head is not a single electron obeying the laws of Heisenberg?
Holiday20310401
 
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Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 05:16 pm
@sarek,
Well of course it is random. What I am trying to prove from this is that conscious thought conflicts the subconscious ego. So we emanate self interest in the symmetry, and subconscious has no character so how can it be of intent?
BrightNoon
 
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Reply Mon 3 Nov, 2008 08:39 pm
@Holiday20310401,
What does it mean for some event to be random? Is the opposite of random, ordered? What is the difference between the two?

Consider who does the ordering. Random is a word we use to express our lack of understanding: to express a state of afffairs which we haven't thoroughly defined and schematized. Nothing is random except in comparison to what we have given order; nothing has order until we give it order.
boagie
 
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Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2008 05:32 am
@BrightNoon,
"The Meaning of Randomness Escapes the Mind."

Smile Yo!

Does not randomness itself escape the mind, never mind the meaning of it, which we would have to give to it in the first place. Is randomness part of causation, or is it that which has yet to come into being. Is order in any sense randomness? The random order, the order disorder leaves? help I am imploding!!!
Holiday20310401
 
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Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2008 04:03 pm
@boagie,
The question I have here even though I did not state it clearly is which drawing of lines is a more accurate representation of randomness, if any are at all. I mean, if one is interpreting the deterministic decision making process you mentioned before boagie, then that's as linear to the mind as you can get, and therefore not random, yet random to the sensory input!

And the other line drawing, depicting the conscious thought, is linked to causation and therefore cannot be random but in fact display a functional symmetry in the very "attempt" to be random. Does this line drawing occur as random to the brain?

So what I'm saying is that decisions in which randomness or "anomalies" seem to appear that do not seem in accordance to the 'supposed-to-be" behaviour are just part of a dualistic trait. In a sense that the brain and the mind have mutual, reciprocal order. The order for self preservation which is inherent for subconscious actions cannot be such for higher levels of thought, being that of consciousness.

In a setting of social interaction where subconscious thought becomes more and more latent, there is need for new order in decision processes to be contrived so as to still get that fulfillment of self preservation. Certain ironic behaviour would actually constitute for the intrinsic needs, based on the need for higher complexities of information (paralleling the higher level of organization aka social interaction). We as humans didn't start out living in these huge urban societies.

It's kind of like switching of perception to a higher level, like that of types of reactions; from nuclear to chemical.
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