Democracy vis a vis Fascism

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I watched TV today, a program about racism with lots of varying people all giving out their opinions. Not that I care much for any party nor extreme views, there was a Nationalist complaining and being laughed at by a crowd totally unconcerned with his speech, simply berating him for being a BNP member. Another activist was so irate simply with the nature of his political alleigance that he made quite a bigot of himself. I find it quite funny that so many 'anti-racists' are so fundamentally bigoted and prejudiced.

I would consider myself in opposition to the debate - both in opposition to racists and in opposition to anti-racists. That's the background, so here's the question:

If party politics constitutes a system of demagogue, then does that render a large portion of Western liberal 'democracy' a Fascist demagogue?

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@Doobah47,

Doobah47 wrote:

I watched TV today, a program about racism with lots of varying people all giving out their opinions. Not that I care much for any party nor extreme views, there was a Nationalist complaining and being laughed at by a crowd totally unconcerned with his speech, simply berating him for being a BNP member. Another activist was so irate simply with the nature of his political alleigance that he made quite a bigot of himself. I find it quite funny that so many 'anti-racists' are so fundamentally bigoted and prejudiced.

I would consider myself in opposition to the debate - both in opposition to racists and in opposition to anti-racists. That's the background, so here's the question:

If party politics constitutes a system of demagogue, then does that render a large portion of Western liberal 'democracy' a Fascist demagogue?

Hi Doobah

I'd say not, since the democracy in question fosters both parties and more. This is simply a matter of people having their basic assumptions about morality (for being anti-BNP is a moral position, not simply a political one) contradicted by the existence of one who holds the opposite moral position to be true. I admire a person who can hold himself above such things and view matters dispassionately, but I also admire those who find a good cause and fight in the dirt for it by a comletely different set of rules.

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@Bones-O,

I would say that pure democracy is fascism: i.e. statism. If the government has the right to every problem, the system is authoritarian, whoever controls the government. Constitutional democracy, or republicanism is the constrasting system. Vote Ron Paul. Very Happy

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@Doobah47,

Doobah47 wrote:

I watched TV today, a program about racism with lots of varying people all giving out their opinions. Not that I care much for any party nor extreme views, there was a Nationalist complaining and being laughed at by a crowd totally unconcerned with his speech, simply berating him for being a BNP member. Another activist was so irate simply with the nature of his political alleigance that he made quite a bigot of himself. I find it quite funny that so many 'anti-racists' are so fundamentally bigoted and prejudiced.

I would consider myself in opposition to the debate - both in opposition to racists and in opposition to anti-racists. That's the background, so here's the question:

If party politics constitutes a system of demagogue, then does that render a large portion of Western liberal 'democracy' a Fascist demagogue?

Hi Doobah47,
Perhaps it's because of my unfamiliarity with English politics, but I didn't understand your opening post. I wondered:
Does the "funny" mean "amusing" , "odd", or "offensive"? How can anti-racists, commonly understood to be against race bigotry, be bigoted?
Do you mean you want the two sides to stop arguing, or to argue more honestly, or are you oppossed both to racism and antiracism?
What is the connection between the issue of racism and your postulation that party politics is a system of demegogy?

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@Dewey phil,

Dewey wrote:

How can anti-racists, commonly understood to be against race bigotry, be bigoted?

To be fundamentally against anything regardless of reason or argument is bigoted, so therefore anti-racists are also bigoted the same as racists.

This background was what inspired me to question whether democratic unions constituted grouping based on bigotry and prejudice based on demagogue - which is what I thought fascism was.

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@Doobah47,

Bigots have reasons for their bigotry: e.g. Jews are evil. I don't find that to be a good reason, a very compelling one, but its still a reason. Ultimately, one reason is as good as another, as none can be proven definitively. So, I guess anyone who believes anything is a bigot, or the term is meaningless and thrown around far too often these days.

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@Doobah47,

Doobah47 wrote:

To be fundamentally against anything regardless of reason or argument is bigoted, so therefore anti-racists are also bigoted the same as racists.

You say anti-racists are bigots because they are against racism "regardless of reason or argument." Please see if the following explanation from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy provides a reason good enough for you to confine the bigot label to where it belongs.

"Indeed, there is no biological or genetic foundation for the grouping of individual humans into a racial group. Instead, humans themselves choose (consciously or unconsciously) which physical characteristics constitute a racial group. Consequently, racial groups are presently thought to be social constructions, or a category created not by biological nature but by human invention."

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@Doobah47,

"If party politics constitutes a system of demagogue, then does that render a large portion of Western liberal 'democracy' a Fascist demagogue?" (Doobah47)

I think that depends largely on our working definition of "fascism."

People nowadays all too commonly use the term as a rather unconsidered, pejorative catch-all for anything deemed oppressive.

There are different types of fascism, and the subject goes deeper than face-value politics.

Will you please be more specific as to which "portion of Western liberal 'democracy' you are referring? Only by identifying this portion's attributes, their ideology and implementation of authority, can we begin to address your question on any meaningful level.

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@Doobah47,

Doobah47 wrote:

If party politics constitutes a system of demagogue, then does that render a large portion of Western liberal 'democracy' a Fascist demagogue?

Ok so, I had to look it up to be sure...[INDENT]Fascism: "A political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition" (Link) Emphasis mine
[/INDENT]No. Yea I think there is a lot of demagoguery going on, but that alone doesn't constitute fascism.

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@Khethil,

We could soften the result by saying such things as tribalism, and it takes into consideration even those who would be considered moderate. The human experience should be more objectively viewed and taken as a natural human reaction tempered with intelligent regard.

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Democracy vis a vis Fascism

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