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Do Black Holes Equal Universes?

 
 
dkane75
 
Reply Sat 27 Oct, 2007 09:15 am
Do Black Holes Equal Universes?

Copyright 2007, Dennis H. Kane

Notice: You can copy and distribute this work as long as you do not modify it in any way.

In order to get a full grasp of the Cosmological Problem, two important discoveries from Einstein are going to have to be understood:

1) E=mc^2
2) The universe is composed of a self-adhesive, flexible substance that is called the spacetime continuum (or just "spacetime").

The fatal flaw with current cosmologies is that they do not come to grips with these fundamentals. In fact, they completely ignore them. Cosmologists instead remain wedded to using physical models that treat space and time as distinct, empty dimensions that are simply meant to be "filled in" with the equations of particle physicists. Using this context, a true cosmology is not even possible, because spacetime must be understood as the primordial substance that allows for the existence of all of the substances that we experience in every day life.

Theoretical particle physicists (TPP's) always proclaim that space is simply a vacuum, filled with something called "vacuum energy", out of which particles may appear, causing a phenonmenon called "antigravity" (aka "dark energy"). Upon closer inspection, this notion becomes so incredibly preposterous that it almost boggles the mind! In other words, what they are saying is that the total energy content of the universe is constantly increasing because "dead space" is actually filled with a kind of energy that mysteriously replicates itself. This is the necessary axiom of today's so-called "cosmology".

In order to believe this axiom, however, we are forced to forget everything that we were taught about the conservation of mass-energy in junior high school! We are told that this principle no longer applies to the real world, because of what the TPP's, in all of their infinite wisdom, have jotted down in their notebooks.

However, if we were to just close our ears to those "rabid dogs" called TPP's, then perhaps we can start to make sense of the universe that we've been given, using Einstein's discoveries. This way, a whole new world of possibilities becomes open to us!

If we are to understand that the universe is constantly gaining in mass-energy while at the same time holding on to common sense, then we must come to the unavoidable conclusion that the known universe is simply a dynamic part of a much bigger system. In this way, our universe must consist of at least one "inlet valve" into which mass-energy is input and possibly one or more "drains" into which mass-energy escapes (any guesses as to what these drains might be called?).

Now let us think about this always changing (by way of general relativity) substance called spacetime. It is said that mass-energy causes spacetime to expand, which thereby allows mass-energy to travel longer distances in the same periods of time (as witnessed by bending light and the slingshot effect of satelites around planets). What this is really saying is that mass-energy causes spacetime to grow and that spacetime causes mass-energy to grow (space grows while energy content grows). Well, this seems to be the classic case of a vicious circle. It seems, by all rights, that this "law of gravity" should spiral out of control at the very moment it is implemented! We are supposed to think that mass-energy causes itself to grow!

What is really happening here is that it makes precisely zero sense to speak of mass-energy and spacetime as being different kinds of substance. For every reason imaginable, spacetime is mass-energy and mass-energy is spacetime. So, let us see if we can borrow a razor from our good friend, Ockham. For the moment, let us use mass-energy and forget about that thing called spacetime. But even the term "mass-energy" is unnecessarily complicated, because mass and energy are two sides of the same "E=mc^2 coin". In fact, we could just say that an amount of mass-energy is simply a "mass" of Energy. In this way, we are able to reduce the two fundamental concepts of cosmology (spacetime and mass-energy) to one easy to understand idea: the universe is simply a mass of Energy.

In fact, whenever we talk about a universe as a whole, it is of fundamental necessity to talk about it simply as a singular, undifferentiable mass of Energy. After all, any of its internal differences are of concern only to the relationships between the beings of the universe in question. If we think in these terms, then we can plainly see that there is no way that this mass can grow without some kind of external input.

***

If we think of a black hole, we understand an extremely dense mass of Energy that is called a singularity. We understand that Energy is always being "pulled" into black hole singularities. The effect of this action upon the incoming Energy waves is profound: they are stretched out until they are nearly completely flat (think of a sine wave). It is said that this dramatic decrease in the frequency of Energy waves means that time dramatically is slowing down inside of the singularity.

What this means is just that whenever a mass of Energy grows, it is also true that the time that is internal to it also grows (or stretches). However, since space and time are forever bound together into a substance called spacetime, then an increase in the "length" of time is identical with an increase in the "mass" of spacetime. Furthermore (pay very close attention here), to say that spacetime grows is equivalent to either of these two statements:

1) space expands
2) time expands

Within the singularity of a black hole, then, there is precisely no difference between the following two ideas:

1) time expands while space remains constant
2) space expands while time remains constant

It is funny how physicists describe the singularity of a black hole only in terms of #1 and the singularity of the moment of the "big bang" only in terms of #2. In all respects, however, both kinds of singularity have the exact same essence: their spacetime increases. According to both Einstein's theory of general relativity and to common sense, then, there is precisely zero difference between a black hole that continually slows down time and a universe that continually expands! They are tautologous!

A black hole singularity is a "big bang" singularity!

For ever imaginable reason, then, it entirely necessary to say that our universe is the singularity of a black hole and that our black holes contain universes. To say otherwise to slap both Einstein and your own good sense squarely in the face!

The Energy that is always being input into our universe, then, has precisely nothing to do with a mysteriously replicating entity called "dark energy" that only finds life in the weird scribblings of the notebooks of those crackpots called theoretical particle physicists. But rather, it is the same ordinary kind of Energy that is always disappearing into countless black holes across our own universe!

The only problem in all of this is that we haven't fully come to terms with that mysterious force that is called: gravity. All we have shown is that the concept of gravity, as such, leads into a vicious cycle, whereby spacetime and mass-energy become what are known as infinitely recursive functions (computer programmer terminology) that continuously feed into each other. Perhaps, then, we should consider that spacetime might just grow and shrink all on its own accord, much like a living organism. As we don't want to violate our common sense understanding of the conservation of mass-energy (aka spacetime), the growth of spacetime in one region should cause the shrinkage of spacetime in another region. And when this growth becomes too great, perhaps there is a moment during which it could be said that spacetime ruptures, causing it to drain into a region that is known (depending on your perspective) either as a black hole singularity (in which time grows) or as a universe (in which space grows).

Just as speculation, because we now think of spacetime as a kind of living organism, perhaps it is just as likely that a black hole can start shrinking, causing either of these phenomena (again, depending on perspective):

1) time within the known black hole starts shrinking
2) space within the hidden universe starts shrinking

In either case, we could say that Energy (spacetime) is being returned from the singularity of the black hole back into the surrounding universe. After all, if regions of the universe can arbitrarily start growing, there is no reason why they cannot arbitrarily start shrinking! (Consider this the Kane Hypothesis).

***

All of the problems in the state of the cosmology are due to the fact that physicists are mere technicians without anything in the way of genuine philosophical intuition. This fact is almost unavoidable if we consider that academies are tremendously competitive institutions that must always outdo one another with the newest, sexiest theories. In fact, it is in their best interest to invent bizarre mathematical theories that are taken as confounding, yet amazing revelations concerning the the "strange, hidden ways" of the universe. After all, many people just want to live their lives in constant states of amazement, brought about by the so-called impressiveness of mathematical symbology. And these are precisely the people who feel ethically bound to support the "sciences", no matter how fantastically ungrounded are the sciences in question.

Theoretical particle physicists are modern day alchemists, claiming that they are able to turn iron into gold with their mysterious formulations!

They are today's "Rainmen" who are able to count a six-deck black jack chute but aren't able to tell you if a car costs more than a candy bar!

Einstein was simply an honest man with good philosophical insight who was confounded at every turn by those "mathematical wizards" who wanted to make everyone else think that only the "elect" could understand the ways of the cosmos!

Viva la philosophe!

(To understand where I am coming from, read almost anything by Heidegger.)
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PoPpAScience
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Oct, 2007 10:07 pm
@dkane75,
dkane, since I wrote this in another thread I entered this here to mark your post in my list, and if you read it, get your thoughts on it.


Before the moment of the beginning there was, "non-something".
This non-something was Potential.
Out of this Potential Popped "Aware".
"Aware" haveing only itself to be cognitive of, falls in upon itself into infinity and eternaty.
Through the act of "Will", "Aware" stopped its fall, what would be called the singulatity.
Now having "something" to be cognitive of, itself, "Aware" reflected back upon itself, better know as the "Big Bang".
"Aware" now being all there is, set in forth through the "Art of Evolution", to be all it can "Be".
dkane75
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Nov, 2007 07:57 am
@PoPpAScience,
poppa, I think you are just above my level Wink

What do you all think about the notion that gravity has nothing to do with the interaction between "point masses"?

In other words, my understanding of general relativity is such that a point mass causes spacetime to grow and that increased spacetime causes point masses to grow (that is, gravitational acceleration causes mass to grow). We always look at this from the effect that one point mass has on another but we never consider the effect that a point mass would have on itself.

It seems to me that a point mass, causing the region of spacetime it occupies to grow, would also cause itself to grow, leading to an infinite loop. According to this "law", it seems, a point mass would instantly lead to a black hole that gobbles up all of existence.

It is very hard for me to describe my thoughts because I think that the concept of gravity is the one thing that the sciences are not able to fully grasp. I believe that it takes a kind of holistic intuition to see that this thing that we call spacetime is nothing other than the left side of Einstein's famous equation (E).

And it isn't possible to sense Energy, as such (such as what enters into a black hole/universe) because it has been totally cleansed of all of its "corrupting" quanta. I just fail to see why (given our horribly inadequate models of the concept that we call "gravity") it doesn't make sense that spacetime/Energy simply condenses and expands of its own "free will".

And when it condenses, it fractures and develops tiny entanglements that we call quanta that subsequently build up to form all of the phenomenal matter in the universe. But every once in a while, spacetime/Energy will condense were there are pre-existing bits of matter, forming all of the spherical heavenly bodies that we see as well as the larger structures, like clusters and superclusters. When there is no phenomenal matter, we call these condensations "dark matter".

Then, when spacetime "decides" to condense to a great enough degree, free Energy cannot help but to fall inside, feeding the expansion of a universe. Furthermore, I think that the most logical explanation for quasars is that spacetime simply decides to reverse course and start expanding. In other words, when a black hole stops feeding a universe, it starts sucking Energy and putting it back from where it came. From what I've read, there are no known physical theories that can explain the extreme Energy production that we see emanating from quasars.

Because of this, our universe could actually be inside of a quasar, but the Energy input from all of the quasars in our universe would be greater than the output, causing our universe to increase in spacetime.

Does anybody else feel totally hoodwinked by Cosmology, as it currently exists? I mean, to claim that the universe is a closed system that also happens to be continually increasing its total Energy content, seems to me to be profoundly absurd. How hard is it to come to the conclusion that our universe is simply a part of a far larger system that seems in every way to be alive?

When you get down to it, you start to understand why Einstein was a Spinozist and why he considered Buddhism to be the world's profoundest philosophy/ religion. It just seems that Einstein understood that there is a kind of holistic intuition necessary to understand how the universe works.

From where I stand, the ultimate problem stems from the fact that science, in general, always takes the concept of dimensionality to be a priori, as it were. In other words, physicists always think that the dimensions ground the possibility of physical existence. I think that scientists are totally misled when they think that there is anything dimensional about spacetime. Spacetime, rather, is substantial. It is pure, non-sensible Energy.

It is only when Energy freely condenses that it tangles itself into knots, forming the "point masses" that allow there to be anything like the Cartesian dimensionality upon which the entire modern Western philosophical paradigm (and its derived sciences) is based.

All of this means that the age of the universe is perfectly unknowable, because of the arbitrarity of the condensation and expansion of spacetime into black holes and quasars. I mean, our universe might have had a billion or more expansion/contraction cycles. It is just totally awe inspiring!

...

By the way, these discoveries of mine have caused me to undergo a spiritual evolution. I can now understand the transcendental unity of all things. I am doing my best to attain Buddha-hood. I've been living out of my car for two weeks. I decided to come back to UF in Gainesville because this is where I first discovered my inner spirit (in 1993/94). When I dropped out of UF, I started on my journey of self-discovery. I've read every type of philosophy you can possibly imagine, and I finally developed my own system (geocities.com/dkane75/phil.html) several years ago. But I never knew that I needed a Cosmology in order to make my system substantial. It is only now that I feel that I am able to start to live my philosophy.

I've been going on to campus and doing what I call existential preaching. It's sort of like what Christians do, except that I try to use good humor and only speak profound philosophical truths that have no connection to any tradition. I want to inspire people to seek for their essential selves rather than always running around in circles. I want to keep myself as far away from the insanity of the global economy as is humanly possible. As such, I befriended Hare Krishnas yesterday, and got into one of the best conversations I've been in, in a long time.

I eventually want to make my way to an intentional community that is spiritual and artistic. I want to be able to grow my own food and do small scale, cooperative trading. I want to be able to sleep under the stars, next to a camp fire. I want to be able to truly respect everyone around me. And most of all, I want to be able to discover true, spontaneous love, such as is nearly impossible to find in this insane system of neverending competitiveness.

Anybody want to join me?
0 Replies
 
Faun147
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2007 03:54 pm
@dkane75,
It's odd, I've been speculating about black holes as well. I think you're a bit above my level in hard science, but your ideas seem very reasonable. Your notion of the universe in relation to black holes is a bit different from my own. I've been theorizing that perhaps the singularity at the big bang is/was an extremely massive black hole. At this singularity, the time dimension reversed, thus the big bang is a white hole. Reasonable? Or filled with holes?

Anyway, I'll definitely consider your notion, it will just take time because there are things I must understand before I fully grasp your concepts (full understanding of spacetime, for example).
Bracewell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 08:10 am
@Faun147,
I do like your style DK but do you have access to a computer I wonder.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 10:45 am
@Bracewell,
All i know is the more we look the more confused we become...The universe could be a torus by certain cosmologists and that would explain the limited nature of the universe..if we could look far enough out into space we would see ourselves...what if dark energy was the shadow of other parallel universes ....speculation is the stuff of this universe..
0 Replies
 
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 12:30 pm
@dkane75,
I can follow you as far as our own universe being a black hole. Assuming something approximating critical density that could be a possibility.
However, the current consensus is that it is open. In that case a beam of light would never travel around the universe but would continue indefinitely at an increasingly shallow angle. That's an open universe.

I certainly agree with you that the universe we can see is not nearly the whole story. Myself I believe in a literally infinite number of different universes.

As far as the black holes we see inside our own universe being universes in their own right I can't follow you. Science has a pretty good idea how most smaller and galaxy core sized black holes are formed and they can make informed estimates as to the mass energy inside them. It is a finite amount of mass energy. That amount of mass energy would also determine their geometry as it does for the universe as a whole.

I must admit though, I do like your way of thinking and your philosophy. It is not that different from mine actually.
0 Replies
 
validity
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 03:46 pm
@dkane75,
Hello dkane75, PoPpAScience, Faun147, Bracewell, xris and sarek.

While it is possible for objects (with a certain mass) or groups of objects (with a certain mass distribution up to and including an entire universe) to prevent light from escaping a particluar region that surrounds them, there are a few comments in this thread that I would like to discuss for the benefit of those who are interested or not familiar with these ideas.

The idea that Einstein discovered that the universe is composed of a self-adhesive, flexible substance that is called the spacetime continuum is misleading. Spacetime is not a substance but rather a construct that unifies the concept of space and the concept of time into a single concept. This was done as Einstein discovered, that the constancy of the speed of light in all frames of reference means space and time can be not be treated as independant entities, but rather as one is altered to other must also alter to maintain the observed speed of light ie when length contracts time must proportionally dialate and vice versa.

Current cosmologies that ignore E=mc2 are failures. Where ever there is mass/energy E=mc2 holds true, from school chemistry to nuclear reactors to stars, E=mc2 is correct when matter/energy is involved.

Particles do pop into existence, but as they do so they become subject to quantum laws and of particular relevance the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which will have these particles pop back out of existence in a time scale proportional to their energy. Net energy is not increasing.
Bracewell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 04:27 pm
@dkane75,
I visited a contemplative religious colony not so long ago and I was impressed by a standing log that had mobile phones nailed to it, a bit like coins in a fountain I thought. I wonder if DK took his vows and has managed to avoid becoming a fundamentalist. Personally, I can't take multiverses, black holes and the like seriously enough to want to follow him and that's what I meant when I wrote that I admired his style.
validity
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Nov, 2008 10:05 pm
@Bracewell,
Bracewell wrote:
I visited a contemplative religious colony not so long ago and I was impressed by a standing log that had mobile phones nailed to it,


Did anyone offer a reason for this? apart from "Oh it's not my phone".
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 02:12 am
@validity,
validity wrote:

...
Particles do pop into existence, but as they do so they become subject to quantum laws and of particular relevance the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle, which will have these particles pop back out of existence in a time scale proportional to their energy. Net energy is not increasing.


You explanation is quite clear.

But two questions do pop up:

1
I don't believe that the net energy of our universe is increasing either, but something will still have to account for the apparent recently discovered phenomenon of acceleration. Provided that is not due to faulty observations.

2
Is it not possible that the (initial?) net energy of our own universe is approximately zero?
I am assuming the total kinetic energy from the movement of the objects in the universe to be very close to the total potential energy they posess in the gravity field of the universe.
Current thinking still assumes an open universe, so there would be a very small surplus in kinetic energy but it is still close.
That would match a quantum fluctuation with a very long duration.
The probability of such a fluctuation would be low, but given enough time and 'space' it would become inevitable.
xris
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 04:46 am
@sarek,
sarek wrote:
You explanation is quite clear.

But two questions do pop up:

1
I don't believe that the net energy of our universe is increasing either, but something will still have to account for the apparent recently discovered phenomenon of acceleration. Provided that is not due to faulty observations.

2
Is it not possible that the (initial?) net energy of our own universe is approximately zero?
I am assuming the total kinetic energy from the movement of the objects in the universe to be very close to the total potential energy they posess in the gravity field of the universe.
Current thinking still assumes an open universe, so there would be a very small surplus in kinetic energy but it is still close.
That would match a quantum fluctuation with a very long duration.
The probability of such a fluctuation would be low, but given enough time and 'space' it would become inevitable.
not all thinking assumes an open universe, it could be a matter of perspective and the torus could be possibility....It could explain the acceleration in certain areas of the universe...It would most defintly solve the problems with the BB and it being an event without a cause..The books still open..The most basic of creatures that inhabit our oceans could be a model of our universe ..
0 Replies
 
Bracewell
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Nov, 2008 04:57 pm
@validity,
validity wrote:
Did anyone offer a reason for this? apart from "Oh it's not my phone".


You're correct Validity, I should have asked, after all it could have been a warning to others.

I have just read that we live in a, 'Condensed Matter' world, so why not an, 'Evaporated Matter' world? There is a new thread there somwhere.
0 Replies
 
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 03:15 am
@dkane75,
Black-holes are time control, your galactic ground-state if you would. It's just like electricity works, everything has it's ground-state(s).

Imagine if you were that black-hole of galaxy X. You would see ties, to each nano particle as well for each macro particle, planets, moons, stars,etc.

You would be looking into the future if you could view a galaxy from the black-hole out. It would look like foot-prints in the sands of time. Governing the galaxy as a whole form, not as most people think, each "matter" is it's own self regulating being.

Let's think about the big-bang here, let's say there was an egg, that egg had dark-matter around light. Since that light was held in the center like that of an ATOM, it was unable to break the strong nuclear force for a long while most likely.

At a point a fisher broke out, causing a chain reaction. The light, faster then one thinks, shot out like a bullet out of a gun. Well as everyone should know, there are ALWAYS equal and opposing forces to be dealt with.

Dark-matter was short out first, unraveling it strings of time. It's also responsible for every energetic form of energy we see. Now that the strings of time are unbound, matter clings to it. As we are stuck to it, in our time, this is also the reason you see in 3 dimensional form, the 4th being bound to the 3.

Black-hole, yep it is indeed a rip in reality, showing you the true "void", the Null-Axiom in it's real state.

Hope this helps...

-Marc
0 Replies
 
validity
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 02:03 pm
@sarek,
sarek wrote:
I don't believe that the net energy of our universe is increasing either, but something will still have to account for the apparent recently discovered phenomenon of acceleration. Provided that is not due to faulty observations.


There a many theories describing the nature of dark energy and contiuned intense observations, such as JDEM - The Joint Dark Energy Mission will help.

sarek wrote:
Is it not possible that the (initial?) net energy of our own universe is approximately zero?
I am assuming the total kinetic energy from the movement of the objects in the universe to be very close to the total potential energy they posess in the gravity field of the universe.
Current thinking still assumes an open universe, so there would be a very small surplus in kinetic energy but it is still close.
That would match a quantum fluctuation with a very long duration.
The probability of such a fluctuation would be low, but given enough time and 'space' it would become inevitable.


With careful development, your ideas could be refined into a plausible explination. For consideration, the accelerating expansion of space is not galaxies moving through space but rather the space between galaxies growing, and some form of exotic energy driving it. I am unsure if kinetic energy and potential energy concepts can be used as the galaxies are not really moving. It is an interesting idea to consider these the problem in terms though.
0 Replies
 
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 10:51 am
@dkane75,
We do need to be clear on this.
The Hubble relationship assumes that almost all galaxies are apparently moving away from us. That would imply movement. Is this movement to be compared with that of a cannonball launched from a gun or is it caused by the expansion of space? In fact, is there, for all practical intents and purposes, a difference?
Einstein explained the classical concept of 'gravity as a force' in terms of 'gravity as a geometrical effect'.
Aren't we looking at a similar situation here. Describing (apparent)kinetic energy of cosmological objects in terms of geometry?
validity
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 09:59 pm
@sarek,
sarek wrote:
We do need to be clear on this.
The Hubble relationship assumes that almost all galaxies are apparently moving away from us. That would imply movement. Is this movement to be compared with that of a cannonball launched from a gun or is it caused by the expansion of space? In fact, is there, for all practical intents and purposes, a difference?


I think there is significant difference. The differnece between the cannonball analogy and the expanding space is that of absolute space.

If the cannonball analogy were correct then there would be a point in the universe where the big bang occured, a point where all galaxies are receeding from, a point known as the centre of the universe. From observational evidence of the distribution and motion of galaxies there is no sign of such a centre.
0 Replies
 
sarek
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 03:22 pm
@dkane75,
Yes, I know there is no centre of the universe. But does that invalidate the analogy in the particular respect I am using it?

It does not matter that there is no centre of the universe, relatively speaking every single point is a centre of the universe. No single observer has uniqueness. And for each of those separate points the analogy would hold true.
validity
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:02 pm
@sarek,
sarek wrote:
Yes, I know there is no centre of the universe. But does that invalidate the analogy in the particular respect I am using it?


I think it does. In the analogy of the cannonball, the cannon would be at the centre of the universe. If there was such a centre, where all matter exploded outwards from, then there is pre-existing space in order for the matter to move into. Not only is there a centre, there would be a leading edge or boundary of matter, beyond which is empty space. The most powerful telescopes do not see empty space at the limit of observation, they observe the cosmic microwave background radiation. There is no empty space waiting for matter to whiz through.

sarek wrote:
It does not matter that there is no centre of the universe, relatively speaking every single point is a centre of the universe. No single observer has uniqueness. And for each of those separate points the analogy would hold true.


While it is true that you can think of each point in the universe in a relativistic sense as being the centre of the universe, I do not think the analogy of all matter (cannonball) exploded out from a source (cannon) is compatible with this. If the Milky Way can be considered the centre of the universe, then where is the cannon that the Milky Way came from? If it is equally valid that Andromeda is the centre of the universe, where is its cannon etc.

If there is no centre, the analogy of a cannon is not required.

It is the distance between sufficiently distant galaxies that is expanding. In the analogy of the cannonball, there is no explosion in the cannon that propels the cannonball. The distance between the cannon and the cannonball grows over time. There is no energy imparted from the cannon to the cannonball. The cannonball becomes more distant from the cannon due to an unseen force.

It is becuase that it is correct to think there is no true centre, that removes the idea that there is an outward explosion of matter in pre-existing space.

This is why I was unsure if KE and PE could be used.
BaCaRdi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 04:24 pm
@dkane75,
Time waits for no mortal!

-TRON
0 Replies
 
 

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