@BrightNoon,
BrightNoon wrote:I don't see how banning gay marriage or abortion is an act of violence, unless you consider all laws acts of violence. I would call them imfringements on individual liberty.
Abortion is the better circumstance, so consider, once abortion is completely outlawed, how do you think a woman who has an abortion or tries to have an abortion will be handled by the government?
Conditional promises to initiate violence is forbidden as well by the NAP.
Quote:Well first, let me state the obvious, which you implied yourself; this is impossible. In a democratic state, who would punish the majority for making their decision? By definition, any such punishment would be illegal. Moreover, if banning gay marriage or abortion is an act of violence, as you say, how would punishment for those who favoured the bans not be an act of violence? Frankly, if you hold all violence, which you seem to equate with coersion, as morally wrong and unjustified, then government itself is unjustified, justice is unjustified. You cannot be a libertarian, as libertarians require a government, albeit of very minimal one.
OK. First I am assuming a revolution of some sort. The current system is overhauled and all unjust laws overturned.
Now, I am not a pacifist, I simply oppose aggression. This means that while I am not justified in initiating violence against an individual, I am justified in using violence to protect myself from aggression as well as recouping any theft or harm, or possibly punishing to prevent recurrence.
And there are branches of libertarians, anarcho-capitalists and mutualists, who hold that no government is necessary.
Quote:This is what I have never understood about people who say that anarchy is the only just form of society; if you abolish government coercion, which is the essential of government, because coercion is itself unjustified, how can you claim that anarchy, in which each person takes on the role of the government, can be just? That said, I have no problem with anarchy; but anarchy must be a state of affairs in which there are no moral principles or rules, not one which somehow supports freedom, as an absolute right. Anarchy can only be a result of absence of rules, not the system by which a just rule is manifested.
There are many anarchists who are pacifists. They don't makes sense to me, but they exist. The supporter of the NAP does not oppose coersion or violence itself, rather aggression and invasion onto the person of another, what that means can vary.
Anarchy does not oppose rules, it merely opposes
rulers. Rules are perfectly fine to the anarchist as long as they are consented to and not imposed. Proudhon, for example, insisted that justice rested completely in upholding contractual agreement, with many building upon this idea to form a model for which private individuals meeting together in a marketplace would provide the methods for guaranteeing this.
There is also a line of thinkers who take anarchism to be a complete lack of prescripted rules, with all actors acting rationally and freely simply coexisting peacefully. I tend to fall in this group, as I think the costs of violence are prohibitive unless supported by an outside party. The government and its thinktanks have long provided the cost cutting methods of ideological hegemony through religious justifications.
More recently, liberal tradition has brought us democracy, which argues that, as long as you have the chance to vote, you are justified in getting screwed. The real danger of democracy is in the guaranteed support of uninvolved bystanders in assuaging the costs of violence.
It would require a pretty major social revolution, but if people began to understand themselves and act as rational individuals, violence simply would no longer be a productive choice and mutual freedom of all actors would lead to mutual benefit of all actors.