Why aren't we talking about "Draw Muhammad Day?" May 20th

@failures art,

My thought was that -

People are worried re privacy on facebook now, that worry being considered overblown by many, and serious by others. If you post under your real name and have certain identifiers in your posts there, you are likely traceable - so you could be vulnerable to an attack of some sort. If you post under a screen name, you aren't as likely to be traceable, but then.. would a lot of basically anonymous posts of mohammed cartoons have much of an effect?

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@ossobuco,

If you see me on the Internet getting my head sawed off; you'll know why. Wink

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@Ionus,

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One friend has a PhD in Psychiatry and another is very high up in the government's mental health department. Both recognise my knowledge of psychology is not to be dismissed. But who are they to disagree with the likes of you ?

Is that a fact? Now that's really impressive. I expect to see you soon heading up Australia's mental health ministry.

So are you chucking the 24 years experience schtick and going for this new, improved Freudian schtick?

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@JTT,

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Is that a fact?

Yes.

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Now that's really impressive.

No its not but it does mean I can not be dismissed with a wave of your leftist hand, your majesty.

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I expect to see you soon heading up Australia's mental health ministry.

Your ability to be wrong still surprises me.

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So are you chucking the 24 years experience schtick and going for this new, improved Freudian schtick?

No I will be keeping both and adding any others I think that will annoy you.

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@ossobuco,

I posted the cartoon with my name on it. I posted it here on A2K. I posted it on my personal blog. My blog's RSS feed goes directly into Facebook.

I'm not trying to be anonymous.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

There is no such thing as a respectful image of Muhammed as there should not be any image of him at all.

Says them. They are free to believe that if they want, but have no right to impose this belief on others. I don't share their belief that there is no respectful image of Muhammad, and this counter-belief has as much of a right to respect as theirs.

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Lars Vilks draws pictures to get the Muslims out of their dark ages into our enlightened western world. Do you really think that is going to help?

I don't have to support his motivation to reject their notions about what is and what is not a matter worthy of offense.

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When a Muslim moves to a western and Christian country they have to learn to respect our values.

I'd stand up for their rejection of Christian religious nonsense too if it were infringing on their rights to freedom of expression and peaceful coexistence.

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What they do at home is none of our business.

Sure, but we are talking about them sticking their noses in what others do, not others doing so with them. If they want to not draw Muhammad at home that's perfectly fine with me.

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2. A Muslim cannot demand prayer rooms in a school as no Christian has a prayer room or others a meditation room.
3. They cannot demand that Muslim children have a seperate lunchroom as they do not want pork meat to be served in the same room as vegetarian food, chicken or lamb meat.
4. They cannot demand our churchbells should not ring.
5. They cannot demand that children should not take sandwiches along with leverpate or other food containing porkmeat.

All sounds good to me! They can keep their religious beliefs to themselves.

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I think that much better and more effectful than a drawing would be lectures about our rules and regulations and how they could fit their way of thinking so there would be a good co existence. There are many - the majority even of Muslims that do that with great succes. The children are bilingual and speak two languages very well, they work hard and save money, the families help one another.

I'm down with this, let's start the class with a lesson on free speech and freedom of religion and let them know they have a right to their beliefs but that their rights end where the rights of others to peaceful coexistence and freedom of expression begins.

Maybe then they'd stop trying to control what other people draw and making such a laughing stock out of their religion.

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Somebody tried to burn down Lars Vilks´home last night. Luckily he was not at home and very little damage was done. One window was broken and a curtain burnt.

The Swedes have a national trade - they are afraid of conflicts.
It is interesting to read letters to the editor and how the Swedes see Vilks and what he is doing. It is from one extreem to the other. Of course I have shortened how people write.

Vilks is against religion - he can do what he wants to do.
No he can´t.
Then you are against free dom of speach and against Muslims.

Vilks is the greatest artist .
No he is the idiot of the century.

Muslims have to learn to live in Sweden
You should let them live the way they like to.

If they don´t like the way it is in Sweden - throw them out.
No we can´t. We have to learn to accept the way they think.

Islam is against any form of violence.
Why do they time after time use violence in Malmö and Göteborg? Not to mention other places in the world.

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I subscribe to The Young Turks on YouTube, so just saw this video. Good for the college students, drawing their stick figures!

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@OCCOM BILL,

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Massive, widespread disobedience is the only way to put this absurdity to rest once and for all.

Really? Do you really think that the nuts who would threaten death for a cartoon are going to say, "oh, they all drew a cartoon, NOW I get it! Continue on with your lives. We won't be bothering you anymore."?

Yes, it sounds like a perfect solution: drawing a picture that will piss off moderate muslims and inflame extremist muslims is the only way to go.

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@Robert Gentel,

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They are free to believe that if they want, but have no right to impose this belief on others.

Belief is imposed on others all the time. Try not wearing a seat belt in a car. Try writing on someone's wall with spray paint.

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I don't have to support his motivation to reject their notions about what is and what is not a matter worthy of offense.

This assumes freedom of speech is an absolute value. It isnt. This also assumes your values are all that are worthy of consideration. They arent.

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Maybe then they'd stop trying to control what other people draw and making such a laughing stock out of their religion

You are trying to control what they feel and how they react.

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Belief is imposed on others all the time. Try not wearing a seat belt in a car. Try writing on someone's wall with spray paint.

If they want their religious beliefs imposed on others, then they can use the same societal processes to make them law then. As it stands it's just threats of violence and complaints of offense.

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This assumes freedom of speech is an absolute value.

I don't see how, it's a value I hold and am arguing for.

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It isnt. This also assumes your values are all that are worthy of consideration. They arent.

The societies I live in have those values codified as law, so I guess it doesn't really matter if you think they aren't worthy of consideration, as the societies I live in do (thankfully).

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You are trying to control what they feel and how they react.

Nonsense, I've made no threats about their behavior. This is very childlike gainsay, what are you going to try next?

"I know you are but what am I?"

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@kickycan,

kickycan wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Massive, widespread disobedience is the only way to put this absurdity to rest once and for all.

Really? Do you really think that the nuts who would threaten death for a cartoon are going to say, "oh, they all drew a cartoon, NOW I get it! Continue on with your lives. We won't be bothering you anymore."?

Yes, it sounds like a perfect solution: drawing a picture that will piss off moderate muslims and inflame extremist muslims is the only way to go.

I see your point. However, if this extreme group will look for any excuse to threaten violence, it doesn't matter if I draw it. In terms of effort, it takes a lot more effort on their behalf. As for the moderate, I think fence sitting is no longer optional once people are being threatened (and attacked... and their home assaulted... etc). Christians have to fight for other's rights to speak and be offended. Atheists have to fight for other's rights to speak and be offended. Moderate Muslims have to do it too. For that matter, I think they do, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they can see the value of making a statement like this, even if it makes them uncomfortable.

What is the difference when Pat Robertson does/says something ******* stupid and offensive, and a public message is delivered back to Christianity? Pat doesn't even threaten you with violence.

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Belief is imposed on others all the time. Try not wearing a seat belt in a car. Try writing on someone's wall with spray paint.

Because if you don't wear a seat belt or if you do vandalize a wall the authorities will burn down your house or make death threats against you?

Where does this happen?

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

kickycan wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Massive, widespread disobedience is the only way to put this absurdity to rest once and for all.

Really? Do you really think that the nuts who would threaten death for a cartoon are going to say, "oh, they all drew a cartoon, NOW I get it! Continue on with your lives. We won't be bothering you anymore."?

Yes, it sounds like a perfect solution: drawing a picture that will piss off moderate muslims and inflame extremist muslims is the only way to go.

I see your point. However, if this extreme group will look for any excuse to threaten violence, it doesn't matter if I draw it. In terms of effort, it takes a lot more effort on their behalf. As for the moderate, I think fence sitting is no longer optional once people are being threatened (and attacked... and their home assaulted... etc). Christians have to fight for other's rights to speak and be offended. Atheists have to fight for other's rights to speak and be offended. Moderate Muslims have to do it too. For that matter, I think they do, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they can see the value of making a statement like this, even if it makes them uncomfortable.

Agreed. I just don't think that this particular act is the best way to make the point.

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@kickycan,

I agree with Kicky here, and past that, think the main benefit of the cartooning on facebook would be to make the poster feel satisfactorally righteous. I don't mind if anyone does it, do see the sentiment, but it doesn't seem to me useful, and I agree it would likely offend moderate muslims while not changing any opinions of the extremists.

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@Robert Gentel,

This is worth re-stating:

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If they want their religious beliefs imposed on others, then they can use the same societal processes to make them law then. As it stands it's just threats of violence and complaints of offense.

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@BorisKitten,

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If they want their religious beliefs imposed on others, then they can use the same societal processes to make them law then. As it stands it's just threats of violence and complaints of offense.

the problem is the word "just".....the vast majority are timid and have a weak sense of self, and we have been conditioned to accept the premise that when someone claims that we are offensive we must change ourselves. We have to get to a point where we know who we are, and where we consider claims of offense but refuse to betray who we are and what we believe. Most of the time the correct response when someone tells us that they are offended by us is "ok".

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I agree with Kicky here, and past that, think the main benefit of the cartooning on facebook would be to make the poster feel satisfactorally righteous. I don't mind if anyone does it, do see the sentiment, but it doesn't seem to me useful, and I agree it would likely offend moderate muslims while not changing any opinions of the extremists.

My idea, and plan, is to post the drawing because, at least in this country, I am permitted to do so BY LAW.

Muslim extremists should be, in my opinion, prevented from threatening to kill (or actually killing) people who draw things, in the United States. Threats-to-Kill are against the law in this country. Drawings, of any sort, are not.

The original idea (May 20th) comes from this one statement by the Seattle cartoonist who started it:

THEY CANNOT KILL US ALL

I was very disturbed when this cartoonist (post-South-Park-censorship), backed down, apparently due to death threats against her.

In my opinion, this is what it's all about. Standing together. Making too large a target for the extremists. Exercising our First Amendment rights to Free Speech.

I was also disturbed by the fact that the people who threatened to kill the South Park cartoonists lived in the United States. AND by the fact that another cartoonist (The Simpsons Creator) said (in a cartoon): "We'd stand by you if we weren't so afraid." (Or something like that, sorry if I got the actual words wrong.)

If you would like to allow cartoonists to be killed in the US for religious reasons, you are free to do so. I would prefer, myself, to peacefully protest against such violence, and I will do so.

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@BorisKitten,

Can someone remind me of this upcoming day on May 19th? I'll figure and draft up a sketch to participate in this event. But don't want to forget about it as I'm a tad absent minded about these things.

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@failures art,

failures art wrote:

BorisKitten wrote:
...Another cartoonist, Lars Vilks, was just attacked by Muslims for his art...

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This kind of thing gets my blood hot.

That gets your blood hot?! Why don't you just sit in the bathtub filled with warm water? Or better yet, a hot tub or jacuzzi.... They're quite therapeutic and are a good way to relax.

Bad ways to get one's blood heated? Stand uncovered in the blazing midday Sahara sun for several hours. Make sure not to drink any water.

Climb into a walkin microwave oven will do the trick quite effectively since microwaves cook from the inside out.

http://www.argusltd.com/images/Mid/Industrial%20Microwave%20oven%20-%20Mid.jpg

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Why aren't we talking about "Draw Muhammad Day?" May 20th

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