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What is your fundamental moral compass?

 
 
saab
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 06:27 am
@tsarstepan,
My oh my- your sure took what I said as if I think so. It is how many people think and do. - buy cheap stuff forgetting about often it is children who work hard so we can buy things cheap.
I don´t throw out old T-shirts. I use them as rags. But a lot of people just throw out cloth. They don´t even bother to take them to the nearest cloth collecting container.
I buy good quality which is good for years also because I am careful about my things including cloth.
I don´t fly around the world to be able to say I have been there, but a lot of people do.
I have lived in 5 different countries where I can speak the languages. I speak four fluently and can handle tourist language in two more. I have or had relatives who worked and lived in 7 other countries, which I of course learned about. At one point there were 12 different nationalities in this family. We are fewer now because of divorces.

0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:42 am
@saab,
Ouch . . . it sounds like one bind after another!
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plainoldme
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:43 am
@djjd62,
Jesus was a bit of a leftist. That is said in appreciation.
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 07:44 am
@Phoenix32890,
That's sort of mine as well. In fact, I was taught that phrase summed up half of the basis of post-Enlightenment democracy. The other half was when two rights were in conflict, one is not a right.
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spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:31 am
You self idealising souls would be well advised to avoid reading 1984.

Your affectations are the mere result of the priveleges you enjoy which were brought into being, and are maintained, by moral compasses which were more or less the opposite of those you preen your egos on.

A moral compass is an absolute thing. It needs to point the same direction when it is tested.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:48 am
@Robert Gentel,
"Do unto others before they have a chance to do unto you."
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 08:49 am
I'm not convinced that morals such a polarity that the metaphor of a compass is well suited.

A field medic in a war may only have enough time and resources to save one wounded soldier. I have a hard time thinking that there is a correct soldier to save. I do however think a field medic standing around saving neither while he philosophizes which soldier is more deserving/harder off/more likely to give back to society/etc is more of a moral pet rock than a compass.

T
K
O
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 09:46 am
@Diest TKO,
That's not a severe test TK.

Having imbibed all the message from Reality TV programmes one would obviously help the one showing the most signs of distress. Unless one was an officer of course. And if they were both officers the one with the highest rank. And if they were both of the same rank the one with the daughter with the big tits and the snooty disposition.

Or if only one was female and screaming like a stuck pig and the other was choking his pain to make sure she was attended to first. Well TK--we are gallant aren't we? To what extent does your compass needle flicker on gallantry?

I could go on. And on. It would be a good exercise in literary composition in the way of refining a moral compass.

I think your main difficulty TK is the abstract nature of your inner conflicts. They have no sense of being on an actual battlefield and under the conditions where your scene is likely to happen. It's okay for a dinner party when the conversation needs perking up. Give a chance to all the moral pet rocks to have their say. No wounded soldiers, not a sound nor sight of an actual battlefield in view nor any realistic prospect of their ever being one, except maybe in a nightmare. In such circumstances one can be relied upon to do the right thing.

One wouldn't even think about it on a real battlefield. It would just happen.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:07 am

Well, similar to the Dys, do as you would be done by.

Do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you.

Now if everyone lived by that maxim.........

(except for S & M fetishists, of course, blushing emoticon here.)
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:17 am
@Diest TKO,
Diest TKO wrote:

I'm not convinced that morals such a polarity that the metaphor of a compass is well suited.

A field medic in a war may only have enough time and resources to save one wounded soldier. I have a hard time thinking that there is a correct soldier to save. I do however think a field medic standing around saving neither while he philosophizes which soldier is more deserving/harder off/more likely to give back to society/etc is more of a moral pet rock than a compass.

T
K
O


I am not sure that the polarity you refer to is there in the metaphor.
A compass may POINT North, but the importance of that is simply that you can determine all the directions from that....a compass is not about its polarity except that one may use that polarity to determine a multitude of directions.

I think the metaphor is "what TOOL (ultimate guiding principle) do you use to determine what direction you will move in a moral dilemma.

Generally, in the extreme triage situation you refer to, the guiding principles are something like "Whom am I most likely to be able to save medically speaking...ie you would choose the soldier most likely to benefit from medical intervention if only one could be retrieved, I suppose.

In "normal" triage the choices are more like "who needs help the most urgently first of those who have a chance of survival" and then move onto the next most critical with survivable injuries and so on down the chain.

If the two soldiers in your example have an equal chance of survival, THEN one has a more complex moral dilemma and may get into higher order thinking, but I doubt that happens in practice all that often. Of course, I could be wrong.

failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 10:35 am
@dlowan,
I know I choose an extreme example. I believe the point of a moral compass is that it is applicable in all situations. In my mind, this seems like a way to almost remove oneself from the actual moral dilemma. It's as if to say: "I wish someone/something could make this choice for me." Morals and living with the outcomes of moral dilemmas have never been easy, nor do I believe that we can ever have such a compass.

I say do your best. Odd example: You may recycle paper, plastic, and glass, but not aluminum. The fact that you don't recycle aluminum however does no reduce the value of the fact that you do recycle paper, plastic, and glass.

A
R
Try your best.
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 11:30 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
I suppose.


Such a cute throwaway dwollie. It means you are here to make a speech but not to make any hard and fast decisions. A moral pet rock as TK called such a position.

Look how positive I was. And honest. That's because I'm not bothered about anybody thinking me "nice".

Quote:
ie you would choose the soldier most likely to benefit from medical intervention


You're sat at a dinner table with that stuff. The battlefield has become a playground for your ego.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 11:33 am
@failures art,
Quote:
nor do I believe that we can ever have such a compass.


You have Jesus and all the other martyrs to a cause to disprove that statement.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 11:43 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
nor do I believe that we can ever have such a compass.


You have Jesus and all the other martyrs to a cause to disprove that statement.

All martyrs, or just the Christian martyrs?
R
T
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 11:57 am
@failures art,
All martyrs.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 May, 2010 04:58 pm
@failures art,
You do know the meaning of martyr is a witness ? The early martyr's were witnesses to Jesus teaching, and many were also executed for that so the meaning has taken on the extra of dying for your faith.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 01:17 am
@failures art,
Indeed...but it also means you are ignoring your basic moral compass on one item.

I guess I don't quite get what you are objecting to.

Saying one has a basic moral compass does not mean one always stays true to it, it's just what one uses to help decide what is best when you are trying to be moral.

Not being moral all the time doesn't take anything away from those acts of yours which you DO consider to be good. It just means you believe you do less good than you might.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 01:47 am
@dlowan,
I don't really object. I guess this is just one of those cases where metaphors need not apply for me. In my opinion, moral issues should be discussed in real terms, including the nuances that make them impossible to cleanly navigate (as it seems to always be).

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 06:25 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
Not being moral all the time doesn't take anything away from those acts of yours which you DO consider to be good.
Did Hiltler do good ? He had his moral compass and it agreed with those around him. He considered his actions to be good.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 May, 2010 07:03 am
metaphorically speaking, the north start is a direction, not a destination.
0 Replies
 
 

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