36
   

Spill baby spill, slippery politics

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 01:28 pm
This is probably a dumb question, but is there any reason they didn't consider sending Navy Subs down there to torpedo the well-head right from the beginning? Couldn't they implode the rock walls themselves and seal the whole thing off that way? When wells are leaking on land, don't they blow them up sometimes to stop the gusher?

Were they worried about actually increasing the flow if they destroyed the surrounding rock?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 01:29 pm
Quote:
Coast Guard Turns Away Journalists Because of "BP Rules"


Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal may want people to understand the severity of the Gulf Coast oil spill, but British Petroleum does not. Jindal talked to journalists Tuesday, describing flying along the coast and watching as oil invades Louisiana's marshes. "This wasn't just sheen, we were seeing heavy oil out there," Jindal said. But when a team of CBS journalists tried to check out a beach for themselves, they were turned away by "a boat of BP contractors with two Coast Guard officers on board." They forced the journos to turn around "under threat of arrest," even though the government hasn't closed the area. "This is BP's rules, not ours," a Coast Guard officer told the crew. According to CBS, "Coast Guard officials said they are looking into the incident."
http://slatest.slate.com/id/2254528/?v=1#4

it just gets worse for Obama.....allowing himself to be led around by the nose ring by BP, as he has generally done, will go far towards bringing back the perception that Obama is a wimp.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 01:38 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Looking more and more like Obama's Katrina all the time.......

Katrina was a natural disaster. This is completely different. And so, the finger pointing will also be completely different.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 01:51 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Katrina was a natural disaster
it was not...nature was a known, the us government claimed that New Orleans was protected from nature but due to construction incompetence it was not. The tragedy at New Orleans was man made.
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 01:54 pm
Saying this is Obama's Katrina is politically clever, but frankly I just don't see people buying it. Soundbyte politics don't stand up against criticism.

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hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 01:59 pm
@failures art,
public opinion as of two weeks ago, given that things have gotten worse for obama since then I expect to see new and worse numbers soon...

http://people-press.org/report/612/oil-spill
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 02:05 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
Quote:
Katrina was a natural disaster
it was not...nature was a known, the us government claimed that New Orleans was protected from nature but due to construction incompetence it was not. The tragedy at New Orleans was man made.

I don't recall anyone every saying New Orleans was protected from nature. That would be impossible.

Besides, it should be pretty clear to anyone that if you choose to build a city (on the shore) below sea level that sooner or later there is going to be trouble. It's just like building houses on the erosion zone of cliff beaches, it's only a matter of time.

I think your suggestion that Obama will be saddled with this Oil Spill the same way Bush was saddled with Katrina is just wishful thinking on your part. My crystal ball says it won't happen. Sorry.


failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 02:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
From your own source...

Quote:
The criticism extends to President Obama, with just 38% saying they approve of his handling of the oil leak and 36% saying they disapprove. About a quarter (26%) offer no opinion. Still, opinion about Obama’s performance is not as negative as opinion about former President George W. Bush’s response to the flooding caused by Katrina. That September, 52% disapproved of Bush’s response to Katrina and 67% said he could have done more. Today, 47% say Obama could have done more to get the government’s response to the oil leak going quickly.


It seems there is a intentional effort to draw a comparison. The people with opinions (either positive or negative) split fairly like you'd expect and then there is a huge (26%) margin which offer no opinion. This is significantly different than Bush's review. People were not indifferent.

Your article states where people are putting the blame: Overwhelmingly BP.

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hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 02:15 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
I think your suggestion that Obama will be saddled with this Oil Spill the same way Bush was saddled with Katrina is just wishful thinking on your part. My crystal ball says it won't happen. Sorry.
I am not wishing it on Obama, I think it is the situation. As it becomes clear that the flow (it is not a spill) was caused by an unregulated BP playing fast and loose I think that the people are going to blame Government. We hate government right now anyways, and it is a assumed that corporations will put at as risk by being cheap. We depend upon government to keep and eye on them, make them do the right thing.

That Obama did not jump on this problem during the first days is a given.

That the Obama administration is not reporting, or allow other people to report, the flow rates and damage being done is going to come back and bite Obama in the ass. He looks like a stooge for BP.

Obama can still save himself, be he needs to get aggressive soon. Words are not going to do it, we are going to need to see reports from scientists and journalists, and we are going to need to see Obama showing the he, not BP, is in charge of protecting America from gulf oil.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 02:28 pm
@failures art,
Quote:
Your article states where people are putting the blame: Overwhelmingly BP.
As I said that info is weeks old. YOu either never knew or dont remember that Bush Approval of Katrina response started out pretty good, but slipped over time. There is no reason not to expect that Obama could end up in the same place. He has work to do.

Quote:
President George W. Bush's overall response to Katrina meets with disapproval today -- a dramatic change from the public’s reaction just after the storm hit on August 29th. Last week, in the two days immediately after Katrina made landfall, a majority of Americans said they approved of Bush's response, although more than a third were not sure. Now, only 38 percent approve. A majority disapproves.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/08/opinion/polls/main824591.shtml
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 03:13 pm
This whole event seems like the worlds largest slow-motion train wreck.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 03:28 pm
Quote:
Whatever: It's a LOT of oil. It's certainly bigger than the Exxon Valdez spill at this point.

BP has been parsimonious in releasing video until now, in what seems to be an intentional effort to minimize public outrage. Some of us complained repeatedly about the lack of video being made public and, more importantly, the way the U.S., government has let BP call the shots. Now the Senate has finally got its hands on abundant video, though according to the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Service in a pointed letter to BP the video has often been stored in low quality DVDs.

There's going to be a lot of talk now about the "cover up" by BP of the true dimension of the spill. See, for example, this statement that just came over the transom:

Statement by Larry Schweiger, President and CEO of National Wildlife Federation:

"It is now clear that BP had hoped to cover up the damage of their oil spill by withholding video evidence of the size of the gushers and preventing independent analysis. In Washington, it's been said that 'it's not the crime, it's the cover-up' - but in this case, it's both the crime and the cover-up that are an outrage.

"The Gulf of Mexico is a crime scene and BP cannot be left in charge of assessing the damage or controlling the data from their spill. The public deserves sound science, not sound bites from BP's CEO."

And I don't think NOAA and EPA are going to come out looking too great, either, at this rate. From the Louisiana Wildlife and Fisheries Letter:

While deep-sea research is difficult, it is now commonplace around the world. The industry capabilities pioneered in and off Louisiana are truly revolutionary. Therefore the ill-equipped, ineffective and ill-prepared monitor program undertaken by EPA and NOAA reflect very poorly on those agencies.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenblog/2010/05/oil_spill_a_lot_more_than_5000.html?hpid=topnews
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:49 pm
Quote:
“I also just don’t believe that BP or their contractor would have any incentive to skew the data,” he said. “Even if they did, there are too many federal, state and local eyes keeping watch on them.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/21/science/earth/21conflict.html?hp Drunk
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:53 pm
@Pamela Rosa,
What a creepy person you are!
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:54 pm
@rosborne979,
Right. This is an example of corporate arrogance.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
Wow! A hurricane is a man-made thing???!!! Whoda thunk it???!!!
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 May, 2010 10:38 am
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Right. This is an example of corporate arrogance.

I don't think it's arrogance so much as corporate profiteering and indifference. The result may be the same, but I think the motivations are important to understand.

In the most rudimentary sense, corporations are designed to seek profit. It's a secondary function of corporations to coexist with their community and their environment. Many corporations understand that long term profitability depends on maintaining their "environment" (the cultural structures and customer who feed their profitability). These corporations are like symbiotes. But other corporations are geared toward short-term profitability which obviates the need for community coexistence. These corporations are like parasites which can disengage from the host, change form and move on. I think all corporations walk the line between those two roles and often slip in one way or another based on short-sightedness or greed.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 05:01 pm
I have been hearing voices on TV demanding the government take control over the blown out well, which the government claims would be illegal. Even if that happened, what could they do that BP is failing to do? Who knows how to stop it quickly?
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 06:27 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I have been hearing voices on TV demanding the government take control over the blown out well, which the government claims would be illegal. Even if that happened, what could they do that BP is failing to do? Who knows how to stop it quickly?

I struggle here too. Perhaps it could mobilize a larger workforce to do the same methods. Perhaps that would be an improvement?

A
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0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 06:29 pm
The graphic is from April, but I think it's interesting...

http://infobeautiful.s3.amazonaws.com/deepwater_550.png

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
 

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