36
   

Spill baby spill, slippery politics

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 02:56 pm
@rosborne979,
Limbaugh and Beck just run the risk of appearing just flat stupid with this. I know that Beck is nuts but Limbaugh usually tries to craft his harangies a bit, so as to give himself a little wiggle room when things go terribly south.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:21 pm
Quote:
This hasn't been a good few weeks for Tony Hayward, the chief executive officer of BP. In the weeks since the huge oil spill in the Gulf began, he has struck an occasionally Churchillian tone: "We are going to defend the beaches," he proclaimed. "We will fix this." But the British leader he most calls to mind is Ethelred the Unready.

For CEOs in crisis, the playbook includes a proper appreciation of the gravity of the situation, a sense of calm urgency, and confidence-building rhetoric backed by confidence-building action. So far, Hayward is zero for three. From the outset, there's been a sense that Hayward wasn't quite prepared for this and didn't quite grasp what is at stake. The Wall Street Journal reported that Hayward "admitted that the oil giant had not the technology available to stop the leak. He also said in hindsight, it was 'probably true' that BP should have done more to prepare for such an emergency."

As the spill worsened, Hayward fretted that he and BP were its victims. "What they hell have we done to deserve this?" he reportedly told fellow executives. Of course, Hayward isn't the victim here. The sea life, the sea itself, the employees who died, the fishermen who are losing their livelihoods, the tourism industry, responsible drillers"they're the victims. Hayward should have been asking himself: What they hell did they do to deserve this? And what am I going to do fix it?

http://www.slate.com/id/2254115/

As if the great recession did not do enough to undermine corporate class boosterism..
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 07:30 pm
"What they hell have we done to deserve this?"

That's what we all want to know, and I think we are slowly finding out.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 11:03 pm
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/tomtoles/2010/05/17/c_05182010.gif
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 May, 2010 11:54 pm
@hawkeye10,
I like it. Two out of nine panels related to controling the leak. Not bad at all.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 06:14 am
@farmerman,
Run the risk of appearing just flat stupid . . . I thought they were just flat stupid . . . especially Beck.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 06:44 am
@dyslexia,
Quote:
i can't imagine too many moral realities in which mass delusion is the prefered option


I remember in Moby Dick Ishmael expressing a wish that the ladies back home would be more economical with their oil lamps.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 08:03 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
i can't imagine too many moral realities in which mass delusion is the prefered option


I remember in Moby Dick Ishmael expressing a wish that the ladies back home would be more economical with their oil lamps.
you quoted me? where did I day that?
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 May, 2010 01:17 pm
@dyslexia,
I'm sorry dys. You didn't say that.

I was responding to this from page 1--

Quote:
no matter what happens with off-shore drilling, we still need to reduce our need for middle-east oil, increase all domestic alternatives and significantly increase nuclear energy.


I made a mistake. In the mouse I mean. Not in my intention. That is what I intended to quote.

I was meaning that your wisdom was akin to that of Mr Melville and pointing the finger at the demand.

As Milton said--

Quote:
They are not skilful considerers of human things who imagine to remove sin by removing the matter of sin. Though ye take from a covetous man his treasure , he has not one jewel left, ye cannot bereave him of his covetousness.


There will always be technical malfunctions. Jumping all over them is scapegoating for where the real blame lies--the demand. For sure it might reduce technical malfunctions but it won't stop them.

0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 12:52 am
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/530/a5a0040c73e89038custom6.jpg

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 03:33 am
Quote:


Steve Wereley went from being a respected but little known engineering professor at Purdue University to being the center of attention last week after he produced a startling new estimate of the size of the spill. Using a well established scientific technique to measure flow from the biggest of three leaks near the sea floor, he determined the flow coming out the end of the pipe could be 10 times the size of the official figure.

Wereley has now analyzed video of a second leak. At a hearing on Capitol Hill on Wednesday, he said that leak alone appears to be bigger than the official estimate of 5,000 barrels a day.

"What I get is 25,000 barrels a day coming out of that tiny hole " that's a 1.2 inch hole,” he said, adding that it seemed “incomprehensible.”


Wereley says the oil in this part of the pipe is under tremendous pressure. Add his current figure to last week's estimate of about 70,000 barrels a day, and his total is now approaching 100,000 barrels a day. And, there's another leak he has yet to analyze.

Wereley's flow rate includes both gas and oil, so he says his figures may come down once he sees enough video to be able to quantify the amount of gas.

"But from what I see in the videos, I don't see the numbers coming down that significantly," he says.

Measuring Oil Flow


Rep. Ed Markey (D-MA) called Wereley to talk to his House Energy subcommittee after noting the huge discrepancy between Wereley's numbers and BP's oft-quoted estimate, which is based on a survey of oil on the ocean surface.

When asked Wednesday what the likelihood was that BP's figures were accurate, Wereley said he didn't see "any possibility, any scenario under which their number is accurate."
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=126975907&ft=1&f=1003

BP with a wildly wrong number Shocked

No way.....
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 04:56 am
@hawkeye10,
Oils compressible but not that compressible. The prof from Purdue who did the calc, used a nominal 7.5 " riser (which is one of a series of industry standards). The friction alone should have that riser melting if hes right. Its a big enough spill and I calced it at about a 10 million gallon spill every 50 or so days.
I dont know why that is the focus of thenews , I think that, no matter what they do, its gonna take some huuge overpressure to get those plugs and muds to actually stick and set up. The garbage shot still spounds most reasonable to me because theyd have a matrix into which they could really pump soime quick set grout in there and then work on a top side set of barriers.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 05:09 am
@farmerman,
The President should send for you fm. Urgently. What is all that talent doing being engaged in constructing an authentic currach with DIY materials when it could be employed to much better effect in the Gulf. Quick set grout sounds a brilliant idea.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 08:47 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/530/a5a0040c73e89038custom6.jpg

Well, in a few million years those marshes were probably going to turn into oil deposits anyway. Might as well get them started early.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 09:53 am
NASA's Terra Sat imagery...
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/454947main_20100517_spill_800-600.jpg
Full size here: http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/454951main_Louisiana.A2010137.1640.250m_full.jpg

There is a lesson here. However it is much like the lesson learned about seat-belts after the accident.

A
R
Terra Sat.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 11:17 am
Quote:
Tensions between the Obama administration and the scientific community over the gulf oil spill are escalating, with prominent oceanographers accusing the government of failing to conduct an adequate scientific analysis of the damage and of allowing BP to obscure the spill’s true scope.

The scientists assert that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and other agencies have been slow to investigate the magnitude of the spill and the damage it is causing in the deep ocean. They are especially concerned about getting a better handle on problems that may be occurring from large plumes of oil droplets that appear to be spreading beneath the ocean surface.

The scientists point out that in the month since the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, the government has failed to make public a single test result on water from the deep ocean. And the scientists say the administration has been too reluctant to demand an accurate analysis of how many gallons of oil are flowing into the sea from the gushing oil well.

“It seems baffling that we don’t know how much oil is being spilled,” Sylvia Earle, a famed oceanographer, said Wednesday on Capitol Hill. “It seems baffling that we don’t know where the oil is in the water column.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/science/earth/20noaa.html?hp

Looking more and more like Obama's Katrina all the time.......
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 11:26 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:

Looking more and more like Obama's Katrina all the time.......


Try not to be such a moron. It isn't like Katrina in any way at all, other then the fact that it's a facile comparison for people who haven't looked into it much to make.

Cycloptichorn
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 11:32 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Let see...the cause of the Katrina debacle was a failure of the Federal government to properly supervise the building of dikes....the cause of this oil flow is the failure of the federal government to properly supervise the drilling for oil.

Once disaster struck Bush was slow to understand the magnitude of the problem and inept at addressing the problem.....Ditto for Obama..

Looks like a good correlation to me...
0 Replies
 
Pamela Rosa
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 12:38 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

What caused the drill rig/platform to explode in the first place? Does anyone know yet?

Sabotage?
Maybe someone doesn't want USA to drill because you'll became oil self-sufficient and is forcing USA to buy Arab oil?


Quote:
Obama’s new oil taxes will lead to more imports
Published on: August 07, 2009 at 11:10
WASHINGTON (Commodity Online): The US Government plan to substantially increase taxation of domestic oil and gas taxes for both upstream and downstreamThe government has justified the move on three counts- (1) to eliminate the current level of “excessive” investment in domestic oil and gas operations and return the industry to a more neutral tax regime; (2) to reduce carbon emissions and encourage the use of renewable fuels; and (3) to redirect tax “subsidies” from the oil and gas sector to “more productive uses.”

A US energy policy think-tank Energy Policy Research Foundation Inc (EPRINC) has pointed out that the move will not achieve the intended benefits and on the other hand will lead to increased imports of crude oil and petroleum products apart from increasing greenhouse gas emissions.

read more: http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Obama%E2%80%99s-new-oil-taxes-will-lead-to-more-imports-20231-3-1.html


Quote:
The Bias Against Oil And Gas By Robert J. Samuelson
Monday, May 4, 2009
Considering the brutal recession, you'd expect the Obama administration to be obsessed with creating jobs. And so it is, say the president and his supporters. The trouble is that there's one glaring exception to their claims: the oil and natural gas industries. The administration is biased against them -- a bias that makes no sense on either economic or energy grounds. Almost everyone loves to hate the world's Exxons, but promoting domestic drilling is simply common sense.

Contrary to popular wisdom, the United States still has huge oil and natural gas resources. The outer continental shelf (OCS), including parts that have been off-limits to drilling since the early 1980s, may contain much natural gas and 86 billion barrels of oil, about four times today's "proven" U.S. reserves. The U.S. Geological Survey recently estimated that the Bakken formation in North Dakota and Montana may hold 3.65 billion barrels, more than 20 times a 1995 estimate. And there's upward of 2 trillion barrels of oil shale, concentrated in Colorado. If only 800 billion barrels were recoverable, that would be triple Saudi Arabia's proven reserves.

None of these sources, of course, will quickly provide oil or natural gas. Projects can take 10 to 15 years. The OCS reserve estimates are just that. Oil and gas must still be located -- a costly and chancy process. Extracting oil from shale (in effect, a rock) requires heating the shale and poses major environmental problems. Its economic viability remains uncertain. But any added oil could ultimately diminish dependence on imports, now almost 60 percent of U.S. consumption[/b[b]], while exploration and development would immediately boost high-wage jobs (geologists, petroleum engineers, roustabouts)...............


read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/03/AR2009050301849.html

failures art
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 May, 2010 12:54 pm
@Pamela Rosa,
Pamela Rosa wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:

What caused the drill rig/platform to explode in the first place? Does anyone know yet?

Sabotage?

http://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Shaking_head.gif
A
R
Thanks for stopping by.
0 Replies
 
 

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