Problems with Judaism

@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

It's a response to, and a parody of, the poor logic used by the initiator of the atheist/Atheist thread. You can easily verify this by comparing the initial posts of both. But of course, if you choose to take offense on behalf of yourself and your faith, that's your choice. Far be it from me to interfere with it.

The atheist thread you believe you are parodying has a style whereby the author of that thread defends his position. I do not see you, as the author of this "parody" defending any position. In my opinion, this thread is more like a mutual admiration society for those that find Judaism a good target for mocking. Or, more nuanced, it is mocking Jews, as you are aware of the references to noses and hair and some other stereotypical features and/or behavior.

I just have to wonder what one sees in Judaism to parody atheism? I personally believe too many Jews died at the hands of murderous Europeans, in the last century, to think Judaism should be used to parody anything. But, as I have said before, many people still have a problem with Jews and Judaism, since some prejudices are just intractable.

Mind you, I am not taking offense; I am just letting others know that this choice of topic is inappropriate in possibly more than just my opinion.

You, or anyone, may make fun of Jews and Judaism. Sometimes I talk in a German accent like in the play/movie A Thousand Clowns, also for humorous effect. However, the humorous effect of my talking in a German accent is due to the humor of Germany having democratically voted in a person that led them down the path to destruction. It is the naivete of the German people in the 20th century that is humorous, not the culture, as it might be with Jews/Judaism.

Let us end this post with all singing, Money Makes the World (aka, ze Vorlt) Go Round, from Cabaret.

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As I said, Foofie: If you want to be offended, that's your choice; I'm not going to stop you. By all means, suit yourself.

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@Foofie,

Urrr, this is the 21st century.

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Guys, Please ! The swear words ?

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

. . . many people still have a problem with Jews and Judaism,
since some prejudices are just intractable.

Sometimes I muse about that. I 've never had a problem with Jews. Most of my friends are Jews.
Of whatever interest it may be, early Christians, considered themselves to be Jews.
Something that never happened is that Jesus did not tell his followers:
"hay, u know, the Jews gave me too much trouble, so don 't be Jews any more"
the same way that Barry Goldwater never told his followers:
"hay u know, those Americans did not elect me President in 1964,
so let 's not be Americans any more."

David

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@Thomas,

You are focussing on the word "offended." I am focussing on the word "inappropriate," and the reason why one would "parody" a thread on atheism, where that author defends his position, and this "parody" thread seeming like a sort of love-fest for mocking Jews and their religion, where this author does no parody of another thread by defending anything. Forget any offense that I could have. Let us focus on the inappropriateness of this thread in this country, where it is just poor etiquette to mock anyone or their religion (the U.S. is not a cheap knock-off of Europe). By the way, Judaism is a religion, and atheism is not, so parodying a non-religious concept with a religion is just poor logic.

But it is telling, how many participants you got to join your thread, and all except two, I believe, are Gentiles. Do not worry about my being offended. You and your followers enjoy the atavistic behavior. It surely makes the U.S. a stronger society. By the way, do you know how present day Germans treat their current Jewish community of ex-Soviet citizens?

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Great
Braying
Jackass

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

You are focussing on the word "offended." I am focussing on the word "inappropriate,"

That's a fair objection. I should have read your whole post before I responded to it.

Foofie wrote:

Let us focus on the inappropriateness of this thread in this country, where it is just poor etiquette to mock anyone or their religion (the U.S. is not a cheap knock-off of Europe).

As far as I am concerned, no let's not. Nobody appointed you to be the arbiter of Netiquette on A2K, so I'm even more indifferent about your judgment in this matter than I am about any personal offense you might have taken. (But did not, by your own account.) Absent anyone who has actually taken offense with what I said, why focus on whether what I said was appropriate or not?

Foofie wrote:

By the way, Judaism is a religion, and atheism is not, so parodying a non-religious concept with a religion is just poor logic.

For the n-th time, I'm not parodying atheism with a Judaism. I'm parodying poor logic about atheism with poor logic about Judaism. It's about the logic of ebrown p's claims, not about their content.

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

By the way, do you know how present day Germans treat their current Jewish community of ex-Soviet citizens?

Very well, according to my ex-Soviet Jewish piano teacher back in Germany. Having emigrated from Moscow to Tel Aviv in the 1970s, she soon left Israel for Germany because of Israel's excessive militarism, its religious and territorial bigotry, and its many unwarranted atrocities against the Palestinians. She says she never looked back, and that she's proud to be a German today. Her experience appears to be fairly typical. I remember Israel's president Ezer Weizman complaining several times about Jewish emigrants preferring Germany over Israel.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Nobody appointed you to be the arbiter of Netiquette on A2K, so I'm even more indifferent about your judgment in this matter than I am about any personal offense you might have taken. (But did not, by your own account.)

Correct. I appointed myself, since I believe I have a fairly good awareness of the American ethic of inclusiveness, and some people might not, regardless of their family's time in the U.S. In a way, I am trying to promulgate an attitude that will not result in a balkanized United States at some future date. Many may not subscribe to that goal, or actually prefer that we all live in turfs rather than states (since many are not cosmopolitan in their beliefs, and do like little villages on the European style).

By the way, I hope you had a zeiser Pesach (sweet Passover).

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@Foofie,

We pagan Satanists actually call it "sacrifice-a-virgin day"; it happened way back on March 21, the day of the equinox. But it was indeed lovely -- thanks for your good wishes!

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

Great
Braying
Jackass

I have been told by Irish Americans that calling another person of Irish descent a "donkey" is perjorative, since amongst Irish/Irish-Americans obstinacy is a supposed trait occasionally found. However, Jews are not thought of as donkeys in any pejoratives. Would not schmuck or putz be more appropriate?

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

Foofie wrote:
By the way, do you know how present day Germans treat their current Jewish community of ex-Soviet citizens?

Very well, according to my ex-Soviet Jewish piano teacher back in Germany. Having emigrated from Moscow to Tel Aviv in the 1970s, she soon left Israel for Germany because of Israel's excessive militarism, its religious and territorial bigotry, and its many unwarranted atrocities against the Palestinians. She says she never looked back, and that she's proud to be a German today. Her experience appears to be fairly typical. I remember Israel's president Ezer Weizman complaining several times about Jewish emigrants preferring Germany over Israel.

Yes, I have found German nationals much nicer/smarter than many Americans of German descent in the U.S. that identify with their German roots. I suspect that many people that have a hyphenated identity in the U.S., and not just plain vanilla WASP, may suffer from some sort of identity crisis that results in repressed anger (and I am not projecting).

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@Foofie,

Thanks for the compliment. As a German national with a Green Card, I have never been described as angry by any American who has met me. I don't expect them to start if and when I become a hyphenated American.

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@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

Would not schmuck or putz be more appropriate?

What do thay mean ?

1 Reply

@Foofie,

None of this sinks in with you, does it? You're a great braying jackass because you're stomping all over a thread which is only satire, and you're doing it because you are trying to claim prejudice. At the same time, you constantly refer to people who aren't Jews as gentiles. There's no such thing as a gentile--except in the mind of a Jewish bigot.

Mote, beam, your eye--you know the drill.

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@OmSigDAVID,

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Foofie wrote:
Would not schmuck or putz be more appropriate?

What do thay mean ?

They both mean penis.

BTW, as a fellow Jew, Foofie, I don't find this topic offensive. I find it a joke that's gone flat (sorry Thomas), but not offensive.

Really. There are far too many other places where, for real, you can get offended because it's actually intended to be nasty. This is not one of them.

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@Setanta,

You have assumed she is not attempting to be satirical . I thought she was very satirical.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

None of this sinks in with you, does it? You're a great braying jackass because you're stomping all over a thread which is only satire, and you're doing it because you are trying to claim prejudice. At the same time, you constantly refer to people who aren't Jews as gentiles. There's no such thing as a gentile--except in the mind of a Jewish bigot.

Mote, beam, your eye--you know the drill.

Let us do the math together. If one is Jewish, then the world is composed of Jews (a fraction of the world) and non-Jews (the rest of the world). So, referring to "non-Jews" gets so tiresome; therefore, using the term "Gentile" is much more elegant. There is no pejorative connotation, just like using the word Jew need not have a pejorative connotation.

And I did not join this thread to claim prejudice. I joined this thread to show that I believe the seeming gusto of some of the non-Jewish posters reflects an attitude devoid of sensitivity, since a parody of atheism is not Jews, nor Judaism, but perhaps deism.

But, I would not expect most here to admit one iota of what I claim is correct, since if it is one thing I have learned is that many Gentiles never can accept to be wrong when a Jew is involved. Unless of course one is talking to one's Jewish dentist or doctor. (Then one might be a very humble Gentile.)

1 Reply

@Foofie,

Foofie wrote:

And I did not join this thread to claim prejudice.

So, what makes this thread different from most you join?

2 Replies

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