Will the speaker of the House overthrow the Constitution ?

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Will the speaker of the House overthrow the Constitution ?

Nancy intends to "deem" important bills passsed without votes now.
No more need to vote. Will that principle be extrapolated into the US Senate?

Will the speaker and the Vice President, alone by themselves now
"deem" what bills are passed and rejected??

Congress will consist of only 2 people now for purposes of decision making ??

Is that constitutional?
I don 't think it is.

David

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Type: Discussion • Score: 9 • Views: 2,191 • Replies: 50

[+3] - parados - 03/20/2010[quote]OK: the question in my mind is simply whether or not the bill is put before the membership of the House who can then vote on it with full knowledge of what is in that bill. [/quote] No,...

@OmSigDAVID,

so the voting on this coming sunday will be about what david?

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

so the voting on this coming sunday will be about what david?

Maybe its Sunday; last I heard it was Saturday
on Obama 's health care bill.

0 Replies

@OmSigDAVID,

What details can you enhance the word "deem" with ? I have an interest in politics but am not aware of USA politics.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

What details can you enhance the word "deem" with ?
I have an interest in politics but am not aware of USA politics.

Instead of deem,
consider it to have been enacted
or
assume that it has been enacted without a vote
without knowing, nor caring whether more members oppose the bill than favor it
or
HAVING that knowledge from taking an informal count, but
pretending that u don t know that.

Someone told me that the Democrats claimed that the Republicans
had done that already; that there was precedent.
I never heard of such a thing b4.
If it actually happend, it must have been on a trivial matter
that no one cared about, or there 'd have been a scandal
worse in the press than Watergate and OJ.

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@OmSigDAVID,

That is puzzling. By what legal basis can they do that ? Bills are clearly covered by law with proceedures laid out.

1 Reply

@Ionus,

David's legal explanation is of course correct - here's some procedural, political, and budgetary background if you're interested:
http://able2know.org/topic/142870-4#post-3939037

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to answer your question, one can only hope so

from what i've observed it's not so much the parties that are the problems, it's that stupid piece of paper, rip it up and start again i say, time to drag it into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if necessary

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

to answer your question, one can only hope so

from what i've observed it's not so much the parties that are the problems, it's that stupid piece of paper, rip it up and start again i say, time to drag it into the 21st century, kicking and screaming if necessary

I am glad that u r only an alien
so that your opinion does not count for anything.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

i bet there are folks in your country who feel the same way

we rebooted about 30 years ago, to break any remaining ties to the commonwealth (most of it was in name only), and to give us a modern document to govern by

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

Yes, Republicans did use this procedure.

Quote:

Indeed, while the deem-and-pass approach used to be rare, its use became far more common 15 years ago -- right after Republicans took over Congress. Don Wolfensberger, former chief of staff for the House Rules Committee under Republicans, explained in a column a few years ago, "When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.)."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/022879.php

Link from within that passage:

http://mediamatters.org/research/201003150041

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

i bet there are folks in your country who feel the same way

we rebooted about 30 years ago, to break any remaining ties to the commonwealth (most of it was in name only), and to give us a modern document to govern by

Definitely; those who hold freedom and honesty in contempt: the liberals.

0 Replies

@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Yes, Republicans did use this procedure.

Quote:
Indeed, while the deem-and-pass approach used to be rare, its use became far more common 15 years ago -- right after Republicans took over Congress. Don Wolfensberger, former chief of staff for the House Rules Committee under Republicans, explained in a column a few years ago, "When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.)."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2010_03/022879.php

Link from within that passage:

http://mediamatters.org/research/201003150041

Thank u, Sozobe.
That was helpful, in that now I understand to some limited extent.
If indeed, the full House membership votes on the self executing
rule, KNOWING that it is thereby voting to approve
of a Senate bill that has already been passed, then the full House
membership is indeed voting legitimately on legislation.

The description did not make that clear; i.e. whether the full
House membership will vote with knowledge that it is
passing the Senate bill; if that happens, then I don 't see
a problem. I am not sure about this description.

1 Reply

@OmSigDAVID,

SO.. the GOP members of the House are too stupid to know what they are voting on?

1 Reply

Quote:

When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

http://wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1412&fuseaction=topics.publications&doc_id=190504&group_id=180829

It seems the GOP has used the deem and pass at almost twice the rate of Dem controlled Congresses

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

SO.. the GOP members of the House are too stupid to know what they are voting on?

I am not entirely sure; maybe.
The question is whether the full House membership ever voted WITH KNOWLEDGE
that it was enacting verbatim the Senate bill; if it did that, then I don 't see a problem.

If not, then the House did not vote on the Senate bill and it does not become a statute,
but rather a fraud based on sleight-of-hand trickery, like a snake-oil selling charlatan from a horsedrawn wagon.

Bottom line: the minority party in the House
has a constitutional right to vote on any bill before
the House, WITH FULL KNOWLEDGE of exactly what is in that bill.

0 Replies

@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
When Republicans took power in 1995, they soon lost their aversion to self-executing rules and proceeded to set new records under Speaker Newt Gingrich (R-Ga.). There were 38 and 52 self-executing rules in the 104th and 105th Congresses (1995-1998), making up 25 percent and 35 percent of all rules, respectively. Under Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) there were 40, 42 and 30 self-executing rules in the 106th, 107th and 108th Congresses (22 percent, 37 percent and 22 percent, respectively). Thus far in the 109th Congress, self-executing rules make up about 16 percent of all rules.

http://wilsoncenter.org/index.cfm?topic_id=1412&fuseaction=topics.publications&doc_id=190504&group_id=180829

It seems the GOP has used the deem and pass at almost twice the rate of Dem controlled Congresses

No party has a right to enact a bill without submitting it to a vote of the full House,
with the full bill before it, for its consideration.

Any party that does so is violating the Constitution.
If the GOP did it then it is guilty of violating the Constitution
and any resulting alleged "statute" is a hoax, fony as a $3 bill.

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What about "deeming" other kinds of things in life? For instance, could I simply deem myself to have a new Maserati or Porsche, or some sort of a rich-man's engraved skeet gun or anything like that?

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@OmSigDAVID,

It's been used by both sides and as I understand it, it's mostly used to speed up passage of amendments to bills that have already been passed.

It has never been used to pass a bill that doesn't have the votes to pass on it's own, though, and that's probably where all the contention over using it on the health care reform bill is coming from.

2 Replies

I am curious David.

Which part of the Constitution do you think the bill that the House will vote on Sunday will violate?

1 Reply

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