BILL IN UTAH PROMOTES GUN FREEDOM

oh, so not freedom from guns

that's disappointing

Similar occurences in Va where STARBUCKS is allowing "open carry" at its coffee shops. So, the argument is shaping that says "You can allow open carry based upon state law, but I dont have ti buy my coffee at a Western Saloon"

Even in Gunsmoke, they required people to check their guns at the door of the Longbranch, didnt they?

If it weren't for all the religion, I'd move to Utah.

If it weren't for all the stupid gun stuff, I would move to the U.S.

The most alarming thing in that otherwise idiotic screed is the claim about mass shootings, and especially the reference to Virginia Tech. The gun lovers seem to be fixated on the Virginia Tech incident. But it is so obviously stupid to claim that the concealed carrying of firearms would have helped, i can only conclude that gun lovers abandon good sense in favor of their obsession.

If there had been dozens of people carrying fire arms in Virginia that day, the odds are pretty good that, not knowing who the shooter was and having no description of the shooter, students with guns would have been shooting down other students they saw with guns. And then the police would have shown up to find dozens of clowns running around with guns in their hands, and any number of those could have been shot down for not responding quickly enough, or in an appropriate manner to a police order to put down the gun.

Of course, the greatest stupidity in any of these claims about how having firearms makes you safe is the unspoken assumption that the mere possession of a firearm somehow means the person with the gun will know how to use it effectively, and will unfailing do so in a situation of sudden and unexpected stress and threat.

Your post is too logical to have any effect on gun nuts.

What are those odds exactly Set?
"Pretty good" is a pretty vague quantifier also.

This isn't up to your usual standards.

Well, logic typically requires facts.

I don't see anything resembling those here.


Is Set's situation possible? Sure. Are the "odds...pretty good"? Who knows. If the counter argument possible? Sure. Are those odds pretty good? Who knows.

Anyway, to claim that his post was logical is a farce. It is one of many millions of possible outcomes of that day. I don't see why I should give it any more credibility than that.

Ive always wondered at the logic that gun toters live by. "They are able to protect themselves from nuts with guns"
I wonder if some other gun nut would see DAve toting a gun and think that HE was the nut. Then its just a matter of reflex and aim .

The statistics favor someone settling an argument with a gun if many more people are packing.

So, in all the states that allow concealed carry; has this situation ever really played out?

Nobody is asking you to give it credibility. After all, you are one of those gun people.

I would, however, venture that the vast majority would find Setanta's remarks in that post not only credible but almost a sure thing. Of course, that is only my opinion.

I would disagree. And I think the majority would agree with me. Of course I can't prove that, neither can you.

Thankfully it looks like more and more legislatures nationwide are loosening restrictions on concealed carry; we will soon learn who is correct.

The gunners hope in their hearts to be heroes, most of the time because they are not heroes in any sense in their usual existence.

They harbor the same thoughts all adolescent boys do after seeing a Western where the white-hatted cowboy single-handedly saves the town from the gang of black-hatted scalawags. They stand blinking in the sunlight on the sidewalk in front of the theater and dream of the day they will confront their own scalawag.

Of course, such thoughts were supposed to be outgrown, but some don't.

They hope, they long, to be attacked.

Joe(you talkin' to me?)Nation

I know from personal, first-hand experience with gun nuts that this is true.

And why wouldn't it be, I mean c'mon. I don't go to the climbing gym 3 times a week and think about climbing all the time, because I hope never to have to climb something....

Cycloptichorn

I think what we need here is a poll.

I should start carrying a wrench in case I ever come across a nut that needs tightened.

The quality of logic is a product of the premises upon which it depends. The premises i have applied are pretty simple--even someone who is desperate to believe that guns in the hands of "civilians" save lives cannot escape the simplicity of the logic.

You have a situation in which a "shooter" is gunning people down. You have at the least dozens of people around carrying firearms (this premise based upon the stupid contention that such a situation would have saved lives had it existed). From that, the progression is pretty simple. Gun toters learn that someone is shooting people down. They pull out their guns. Any number of them see any other number of them with guns drawn--so they shoot. The police arrive to find any number of them waving guns around, and in each instance they tell them to put down their guns and step away.

You know, it really doesn't matter how many of the would be heroes shoot down other would be heroes--one is too many. It doesn't really matter how many would be heroes are shot down because they respond inappropriate to a police order to put down their guns--one is too many.

Don't tell me about my standards, MP. What about yours? Are you seriously trying to defend the proposition that we would be better of with dozens of armed people running around a college campus when a mass shooting is in progress? In 1871, James Butler Hickok (a.k.a., Wild Bill) was working as marshal in Abilene, Kansas. He became involved in a dispute with a saloon owner, Phil Coe, and when in the course of a street brawl Coe fired at him, Hickok shot and killed him. Hickok caught some movement from the corner of his eye, and turned and shot dead a deputy marshal, Mike Williams, who was coming to his aid.

So there you had someone who was experienced with firearms, and was good with them--he still killed another lawman in a confused situation. But you think it defies logic that dozens of armed boys with no experience wouldn't shoot one another, or be shot by the police, in a tense and confused situation? Tell me about logic, MP.

That 's AMERICA to me.

I never saw THAT happen.





David

We keep making MORE of them.





David

By YOUR reasoning, TKO, people who participate in fire drills
yearn for a REAL fire, and why wouldn't it be, I mean c'mon and when we
"ducked and covered" in school after WWII, we did it because we WANTED to get hit with nuclear boms.
I know this from personal first-hand experience with duckers n coverers that this is true.





David