KFC Pulls "Racist" Australian TV spot

OK, seems like things are getting closer to clarification, that's good.

I don't think that it was a mistake, innocent or no, in the Australian context. (No "purely," OK?! . "Purely" was not intended to connote anything in particular, take the word away and my meaning stands. Australian context vs. American context, that's it.)

However, FOR KFC, it was a mistake.

I had already thought after stepping away from the computer that I was missing an element in my revised analogy. That element is that because of the fraught history, the Goodgrief Icecream company was very careful of how they marketed their ice cream, and this particular American commercial innocently played into the very stereotypes and hot buttons they'd tried so hard to avoid. And the Egregian Goodgrief Icecream company smacked their collective foreheads and said "how did THAT happen?" and then "whew, gotta pull it."

That is such an odd reading of what was clearly just meant to say that if it could be expected to stay in Australia exclusively it would not be a problem. It does nothing at all to suggest this is racist in all other circumstances.

I also don't agree with the "blind spot" quibble you have either. This issue does exist, you keep saying you can't have a blind spot for something that is not there but just because this isn't an Australian thing doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The blind spot references don't have to mean intentional ignorance of something, it can just mean a spot not in your field of vision (e.g. by being in another country).

Do you at least agree that there are plausible interpretations of the lines you are reading between that don't add up to the US-centric view?



I "get" what you are saying. I don't agree with it. I think you've interpreted responses very oddly and injected meanings that just aren't there. I "get" Australian resentment at American cultural influences but think this is an insignificant one compared to all the other stuff that goes uncommented. It's like American ability to be culturally obnoxious is being undersold here by such a mild example being the lightning rod.

I think this is just a perfect storm of symbolism and culture differences that is bringing out a lot of pre-existing sentiment and this particular issue is just a catalyst for discussion. Of all the ways Americans can be ignorant, of all the ways American culture can influence you negatively this is your Alamo (I never use this metaphor, but it's so American that I think it might cause conniptions)? Serious?

For more perspective, here are two articles from The Times of India.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Fast-food-giant-KFC-pulls-Australian-ad-over-US-racism-complaints/articleshow/5426537.cms

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/indians-abroad/46-drop-in-Indian-students-applications-Australia-/articleshow/5419235.cms

Eorl - I get the principle you're trying to defend here, but I think you need put your feet back on the ground.

Yes, pulling the add implies it should not have been aired in the first place. If you take issue with the notion that no Americans are being asked to re-assess what they see, here's the deal. We are. Everyday. For decades; generations now. But what you're asking for is for Americans to become enlightened by what you see as a cultural light bulb. Maybe what you need to understand is that while many in this thread have offered very old origins for this kind of stereotype, we aren't remembering these kinds of people, we're living with them--now.

What you're asking/demanding is that Americans let go of this sensitive spot. You know, let go of the taboo. Where have you accounted for those who would take kind of acceptance as a loosened leash? You may see this as some glorious opportunity for us ignorant imperialistic bullies to have some sort of national heart to heart about race and diversity, but that is not the case.

Show me once in ANY country's history where your idea has been done and worked? I'll show you where it hasn't.

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Nope. I'm asking you to accept when it's explained that this commercial does not fit your taboo. For you to insist it does, is racist. You are only seeing the colour of the West Indians skin. They are not "a rowdy bunch of blacks", they are West Indian cricket fans, surrounding an opposition team supporter. When told you have the context wrong you have the choice to attempt to understand it, or pig-headedly refuse. Commercial reality means they'll pander to the dumbest common denominator, so the ad gets pulled for that reason.

To me, that's exactly what it is. These commercials are a form of art that influences perceptions about brands on low levels.

It doesn't matter if it's a misinterpretation of the intent. Even if it's just a cloud that enough people start saying really looks like a penis you pull the ad. These aren't moral stands, they are varnished advertisements, when the varnish comes off (and this can happen just from the ad running enough times) you pull them.

Ads are all about interpretation and even misinterpretation. No, you aren't going to score all those bikini-clad women in the beer ad if you drink it. But they want you to take a positive misinterpretation away from the ad, not a negative one.



That's a pretty high standard you've set for advertising. I don't know of any examples off the top of my head where a company tells a significant part of their market to re-assess their ad if they don't like it. Ads usually don't need to come with context explanation, cultural awareness classes and disclaimers .



One thing that has struck me as a big cultural difference is that in America the race card is dealt so fast and loose that we probably don't see being called racist nearly as damning as you do. In America that's almost an inevitability.

In the blackface case I think people were very understanding of the lack of intent. The Jackson 5, who were parodied were very understanding. Marlon Jackson said, "We thank Harry for speaking out, but we also understand that they weren't trying to be disrespectful to us." A family friend, Stacy Brown, who was one of the stronger critics of the skit even drew the line at calling Australians racist about it when he said, "You can't call them racist for not knowing the history of African-Americans."

You'll always have more shrill people on the race issues but the debate about race is just a lot more shrill in America. Those Young Turk guys did similarly hyperbolic attacks on US politicians. America has a ritual where they throw somebody under the bus for saying something that has racial implications. There are a lot of other attempts to throw someone under the bus just for something that can be interpreted along racial lines. Just look at the controversy about Harry Reid going on right now. He wasn't making a derogatory comment about blacks, he was saying that Obama was palatable enough of a black to whites to get elected. But just by speaking without nuanced choices of words on the subject of race he's going through a bunch of controversy. I know this probably doesn't help the obnoxious factor much, and probably makes it worse (yet another American cultural peculiarity that is incongruous in Australia) but I strongly suspect that very different value is placed on the charge of racism in America vs. Australia.

Accusations of racism happen all the time in America, and maybe that's why we don't think it's nearly as big a deal as you guys do when someone calls you racist. Especially when it's a radio talk show personality, we have guys like Limbaugh, it's hard to get worked up at every ignorant talk show host for us.



Do Australian companies routinely take principled stands against misinterpreted ads and commit Seppuku? An ad being old is enough reason to pull it but being misinterpreted as a company's number one bad stereotype isn't?

I too think it would be nice to see KFC try a post-racial approach to the stereotype (my "we all like fried chicken" idea) but why is this a cultural stand? When the two countries are coming closer and closer, with Howard playing sycophant so very well that Australia gets on America's BFF list, with the fast-tracked trade agreement in exchange for helping invade Iraq, and all this increased contagion this just strikes me as an inevitable and comparatively insignificant consequence of the approximation to the US. It's like I've been hearing about you guys eating pizza for nearly a decade and now the big news is that you contracted a zit.

That is actually useful perspective, I'd suspected (and the linking of the issues now by you and the BBC article seem to confirm) that there might also be a big sense of being piled on about the race thing. With the blackface incident, the Indian overreaction, and now the KFC thing it's 3 largely undeserved blots to the Australian reputation on race in short order. Different cultural values and sensitivity levels, jumping the gun on India's part, and KFC's pulling an ad over a misinterpretation may just converge to make Australians fed up with being called racist for such dubious reasons.

I would be pissed to, but like I said that is closer to normal in America where being called racist is a matter of course.

I keep writing things like, "I know it'd never happen but I would love to have seen..."

and you keep responding with "Why can't you see that would never happen".

I get it. It's just an ad. But it's also an article in Indian Newspapers, where we are being wrongly labelled by some as a very racist country.

What I think you are not seeing is the difference in how it FEELS to have our representative plead guilty and been let off with a warning, when we are in fact completely innocent.

As a wise American once said, (on about page 16),
"Maybe you're OK with people casually branding you a racist, but i don't appreciate it."

Thank you! That makes all the difference.
(we cross posted there)

Gotcha, I may be conflating the general sentiments but what seems out of place to me if it's seen as an inevitability is why it's considered an undue influence. If it's something an Australian company would also do in the same spot why bristle at the American company doing it?



I get it. I honestly think you guys have a lot more of a case about the Indian accusations though. As least the US has had the good sense not to issue travel advisories warning blacks away from Australia.



But there's also a "protest too much" point where it just empowers the accusation I think. I don't like being called a racist, but the less plausible the accusation the less I mind it and the more I protest about it the more I make it look plausible.

I don't take kindly about being called a racist, but with the facility with which the accusation is thrown about I've also learned not to let it ruin my day if it's a ridiculous charge.

Funny, I was thinking it was like railing against the bubo and ignoring the plague.

Is this what you need? You want others to feel your feelings about being called a racist, or at all feeling like it is implied? Nobody likes that. However, we will be called many things we aren't, we simply must move forward.

If you need your real principled stand make it this.

You're in no need to defend all of Australia, when you feel your country may be misrepresented as racist. You may think us USians (I love this term BTW Dlowan) are isolationist bullies with little to know knowledge beyond our borders, but similarly, I don't have **** to prove here. That simple idiotic small world American, isn't me. I don't have to prove it.

You don't like your country slandered by people who don't understand the commercial. You (like I) probably give a damn about your good name, and perhaps you might feel like this makes you look bad when you haven't done anything wrong. You don't like the association. It makes you feel better to hear that RG would be pissed? Of course it does! What you Aussies have been crying out for is empathy and many here have been trying to offer it. I mean seriously, you think Americans don't know what it's like to have their country slandered (fairly and unfairly)? It's par for the course. We get it.

If you get why the commercial was pulled, then there isn't any intellectual ground left to fight over. Your notion that American's should observe/adopt non-American racial worldviews is the exact thing you are damning us for: Forcing a foreign culture. Don't you see that?

As for seeing a someone from the West Indies and assuming they are black, bite your tongue. I was very keen on my senses and when I saw this ad, I never found it racist. I found it unfortunate, and honestly funny. The humor I felt was knowing exactly how these things play out in the US and knowing why it would be misunderstood. None of that was a condemnation on Australia. None of that was seeing West Indians and thinking black people. Why do you assume I saw African Americans?

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Bingo.

Actually, sometimes they come with disclaimers that basically say the product doesn't work. LOL.

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I give up.

You're still on about pulling the goddam ad.

I have no idea how to say any more plainly that that is not my concern. It never has been. I have said that since my earliest post.

Seems like this is a total area of inability to communicate....well, no...Set finally got at least a bit of it.

I have no skerrick of an idea how to communicate any more clearly what I mean.

It's no major deal, it just is.

Do you really mean that?

Can you tell me exactly what you believe the American racial world view is?

I am seriously interested, because I am finding it so hard to comprehend the disconnect here, and I know good and decent folk are finding it impossible to do so, too.

Trying but failing, until now, I think. The attempt is appreciated however.

No, it's not quite that simple. Expecting some Americans to allow for the possibility that there ARE other worldviews appears to be the issue.

I don't. How many times have I said the racism exists with those who DO. And it's those who do, who are offended by the ad. YOU don't fit that category and nobody ever said you did. Certainly not me.

As I pointed out early in this thread, this will effect me and anyone else here who produces anything that can be redistributed on the net. I now have to be careful not to offend my target audience, AND the entire USA. Nowhere else, other places don't expect us to conform.

Ultimately, I've think I've justified my feelings about as much as I can. It's certainly taken far more of my time and energy than the matter deserves, but when called to explain myself, I do my best to do so, partly so I might learn something about others and about myself. Mission accomplished I think.

Dear bunny, I don't know how much further you can pursue this without risking your brain exploding!

It is kinda hitting brick wall stuff.

Yeah, I know you think that, but I disagree.

Since I see no sign of your understanding my point, that seems to be how it is.

BUNNY! Here's the baton....

<collapse>

Nah...I give up.

They mostly haven't got even the most basic point that I don't mind the ad being pulled.

You do mind, so our batons are different.

And I get all the weird ironies that are sort of happening, though way less than some folk think.

It's funny....I have no idea why this gets under my skin.

I mean, I get why dominant powers get under everyone's skin, but normally it's fine. I just need to walk away, unless discussion with Djjd can philosophise it.