A personal relationship with God.

Only your silly god have absolute power no ruler have the ability to long rule if his orders go again the will of his people to any large degree.

see what I mean? This topic has been so geschmutzed by the pro v anti god trolls that your very point of discussion has been ignored

Please could anyone explain this to me, or could any Christians or Non-Christians recount their experiences of having a 'personal relationship with God', or give examples as to why such an experience may be considered false. If anyone would be willing to give any testimonies of the 'conversations' they have had with god, I would really appreciate it- is your experience of God a purely cognitive/linguistic one, or is it a feeling? If it is linguistic, what type of things do you say to God and how does he show you he has heard your prayer? If your relationship with God is emotional/spiritual, then is there any way in which you think you could describe the feelings, and explain how you know/believe that they are from God, rather than self-induced.

see what I mean? This topic has been so geschmutzed by the pro v anti god trolls that your very point of discussion has been ignored

PQ,

From the viewpoint that "self" concepts are nodes within a network of relationships with other concepts, the impasse is inevitable because networks are not isomorphic. i.e. It is not "you" who cannot agree with the other, it is due to a difference of relational supports for ephemeral and transient "self awareness" , and these relationships mediate "personal experience". Thus we cannot talk about "false experiences" ...only "different experiences".

Note also that networks can be visualized a different levels of abstraction, one of which might involve "no-self" or "self-dissipation". At that level "God" may equate to "holistic consciousness" for some, and conversation per se is transcended.

It's funny that you ask this now because I just had a sort of typical 'prayer conversation' with God for the first time in a long time the other day. I do believe in something outside of myself, and I am cognizant and communicating with it all the time - when I meet lovely people, see babies, experience something with another human that binds us together either in sadness or joy, view the wonders of nature, etc, etc. and the reason I believe it's outside of myself and not only within myself is because I believe it's available to everyone who wants to access it and not just me.

But I don't necessarily believe (because I don't KNOW) and don't need to believe that it's an actual being or entity of any sort. I just believe it's THE ideal. Not AN ideal - THE ideal and it represents (if not embodies) what works for people in THIS world. You know- what brings them happiness and peace, etc. And though a lot of people would probably see that as being very individual to each person, at the bottom of that there's one specific, communal need that we all share and that's love. So if we're able to be loving and feel loved, no matter what other circumstances swirl around us- that brings us some measure of peace in our lives.

In my mind God is simply that - love. So love is God. And if you're a Christian, Jesus is your example of how to spread that love.

So the other day, I was really struggling with what to do about a friend of mine who I do really love, but who I've decided I can't really help- or at least that my help is not working and in fact may be enabling, which I don't want to do.
I've been really anxious, asking myself, 'Is this the right thing to do, is this the wrong thing...' to the point that my stomach was in knots. I hate that feeling. So I just prayed and actually said, 'God, help me find the strength to do the right thing.' Because I thought the right thing was to leave him to his own devices and not support him in what he was doing, but I found it very hard to do that.
You know what - almost immediately I felt at peace with my decision to do that. I mean it was noticable - I felt so much more at peace with my decision of backing away- no guilt at all- and a certainty that it was the right thing to do which hadn't been the minute before.

Maybe it was just me accessing that best and strongest part of myself, which I call God - which is also in everyone else. But it makes a difference in my life, for sure. And it's the best and strongest part of myself- because it's what keeps me out of trouble.
And maybe it's just because I'm inculcated in the Christian religion, but I can always find peace in the teachings and my thoughts around God.

And even if it's only a placebo - it's still a wonderful placebo to have - that access to peace.

... and the reason I believe it's outside of myself and not only within myself is because I believe it's available to everyone who wants to access it and not just me.

And even if it's only a placebo - it's still a wonderful placebo to have - that access to peace.

Maybe it was just me accessing that best and strongest part of myself, which I call God - which is also in everyone else. But it makes a difference in my life, for sure. And it's the best and strongest part of myself- because it's what keeps me out of trouble.
And maybe it's just because I'm inculcated in the Christian religion, but I can always find peace in the teachings and my thoughts around God.

eoe wrote:

Why must there be an argument about it anyway? What's so difficult about respecting another's belief, whether you share that belief or not?

Why not argue about it? If one person believes the sky is red and the other believes the sky is green, that means that at least one of them has to be wrong. And if you care for the truth, you'll want to find out which. It has nothing to do with disrespect, just with curiosity. Religion is no different.

Have you ever - I am sure you have - had a conversation in your head with a living person? Say preparing a discussion with your boss, your child´s teacher.
You think about what you would say and what they might answer.
I think that is very normal for most of us.
Some people - especially children - have a fantasy friend with whom they have long conversations.
Some people with fantasy have discussions with dead people of their interests.
You might argue with Freud about his ideas - just to get things clear in your own head.
My great grandfather was very technical interested and he died long before I was born.
I could imagen that many authors have discussions with their figures in a novel to get that person more autentic.
When I have a difficult technical problem to solve I imagen he is there and asking me question about say Internet. Then I explain it to him in my head and while doing so things are clearer to me and I usually solve my technical problem.
Why should not a person be able to have a personal relationship with God in the same way as we do with living persons, fanatasy persons.

Some people - especially children - have a fantasy friend with whom they have long conversations.

Why should not a person be able to have a personal relationship with God in the same way as we do with living persons, fanatasy persons.

Quote:

I was a christian when I was 13, and although I have experiences that may appear to match this, when I 'grew out of' my faith, I deduced that any personal relationship I had perceived was actually me talking to myself.

Talking to oneself and talking to one's god are not necessarily always separate experiences. There is the concept of 'a god within', the notion that whatever supernal force guides your life is within you, not 'out there' somewhere. The Greek word is entheos which literally means 'god within.' Our English word 'enthusiasm' is directly derived from this. I recommend reading A God Within by Rene Dubos.

I think a lot of christians presume that non-believers have never had any sort of feelings or thoughts of this regard.

For what my opinion is worth, I dont think there is a personal God. But I have several reasons for thinking a God exists that can not be communicated with by humans.