God permits the execution of a pastor at His home.

@tsarstepan,

tsarstepan wrote:

I agree MA, I'm an atheist and I would like to hear anything resembling a point (be it irrational or rational)....

Well, it's the old thing about whether god can be omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent.

This is a variant of the Problem of Evil.

The position is: If god knows everything, can do anything, and is a loving sort of a deity, how can she permit people/things/good people to suffer such awful things.

The logic would suggest, one if the three attributes has to go!

Of course, theists then mutter about "god's works are beyond our feeble understanding and we should shut the **** up and sit the cocksuck down."

Or, as my hero, Alexander Pope said:

Know then thyself; presume not god to scan!
The proper study of Mankind is Man.

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@Merry Andrew,

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Where does God come into all this?

Well...if you haven't heard of the argument of God's attributes of being all powerful, all knowing, and all loving...I suggest you learn about it.

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You have a particular animus towards religion, Jason.

I don't waste my time hating...I try to support all my arguments with as much evidence as I'm able to muster...the only way I resort to animosity is when people show insulting, indifferent, or biased remarks....otherwise, I'm willing to carry a civil discussion.

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We're all aware of that.

I don't doubt it.

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But what the hell point are you trying to make this time?

This is what you wrote:

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A nutcake offed a preacher. The congregation -- which believes in that sort of thing-- asks for prayers for everybody and their kinfolk. So far, I'm following the story.

It is exactly my point... in my previous thread I mentioned how there was a research conducted by Harvard Medical School about the power of prayer.

And to me it seems ironic that a bullet was able to go through the pastor's Bible and reach him...since God is willing to protect us from evil. Try reading this one: 2 Thessalonians 3:3

If you start gathering evince from all this, you will notice that it points to a non-existent god.

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@Intrepid,

Any discussion always looks conspicuous to you.

1 Reply

@djjd62,

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and your point is?????????????

It's in English...I think you should be able to read it and understand my point.

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@roger,

Your belief in the supernatural.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

What does the quote below mean to you? Does it mean that God is in control or not? Can you see it or should I explain it to you?

Quote:

"[...] the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will [..]"

1 Reply

@Jason Proudmoore,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Any discussion always looks conspicuous to you.

Is that the best you can do?

1 Reply

@Jason Proudmoore,

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

What does the quote below mean to you? Does it mean that God is in control or not? Can you see it or should I explain it to you?

Quote:
"[...] the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will [..]"

You haven't answered what I wrote yet. Why are you answering with a question? There is a word game forum for that.

Sure....explain it to me. You may as well explain the rest of the chapter while you are at it.

As a matter of fact, you may want to answer the rest of the posters with answers of some substance rather than the smart ass and snide remarks with which you answered them.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

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Is that the best you can do?

Nope, but I don't have to do my best to show you that you're ignorant of the subject being discussed.

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@Intrepid,

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You haven't answered what I wrote yet.

Yes, I did.

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Why are you answering with a question?

I haven't answered you yet...if you could read my last question, you would've noticed that I asked you whether I should explain it to you.

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There is a word game forum for that.

You're a very interesting person...really.

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Sure....explain it to me.

Well, the sentence reads "[...] Him who works all things [...]", which means that one of his attributes is being all powerful...and "[...] according to the counsel of His will [...]" means that He can do whatever he wants.

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You may as well explain the rest of the chapter while you are at it.

I don't need to explain the rest of the chapter...this quote sufficed.

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As a matter of fact, you may want to answer the rest of the posters with answers of some substance rather than the smart ass and snide remarks with which you answered them.

I've already answered them. How come creationists, when presented with a passage that refutes their argument, they often say that the passage is taken out of context, that the whole chapter needs to be read in order to understand what was said? Even if you read the whole chapter, there is not a single line that contradicts God being in control. Now, show me a passage that demonstrate that God is not in control.

Sometime I think that you're just playing ignorant.

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@Jason Proudmoore,

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Now, show me a passage that demonstrate that God is not in control.

First, one has to believe in God and second, no one other than yourself is
in control of your life and your life alone. My life works fine without God -
no demonstration is needed.

1 Reply

@Jason Proudmoore,

Bad guess.

1 Reply

@Jason Proudmoore,

Why do you continue to refer to people as creationists? You have no idea what anybody is. In fact, by your posts, you don't have much of an idea of anything.

I said you didn't answer what I wrote. You replied with "yes I did".

In the same post I asked why you were answering a question with a question. Y0u replied with "I haven't answered you yet".

You also said that one line from the bible sufficed to explain your positon. You foolishly made this assumption. It did not.

You also claim not to believe in God, but you blame God for a preacher being killed as the premise for this thread.

You seem to be confused.

1 Reply

@CalamityJane,

Quote:

First, one has to believe in God and second, no one other than yourself is
in control of your life and your life alone. My life works fine without God -
no demonstration is needed.

The context of my statement is supposed to be taken that God is in control according to the book of fairy tales known as the Bible.

1 Reply

@roger,

If it is a bad guess, then that quote from the Bible refers to God as being other than all powerful?

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Let me get this straight... <<sigh>> ... you are a disillusioned former Christian turned atheist and this whole thread exists as a sting operation to secretly proselytize allegedly bible thumping Christians over to your side.

I believe that you have fair and good intentions in your motives but your method is exploitative and mean spirited. And do you really think your method of shock and awe forced conversion will change anybody's deep theological beliefs?

roger wrote:

God neither permits nor causes anything.

This simple statement is neither an admission of the existence of god or that the Bible is an infallible source of truth. Some people are theist who believe that a god or force created the universe like the clockmaker builds clocks then winds it up and lets it run on its own. The point is don't read between the lines especially if it's a one liner.

I apologize in advance roger if I taken anything out of context.

1 Reply

@Intrepid,

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Why do you continue to refer to people as creationists?

People who believe that the world was created from nothing by a powerful being are called "creationists."

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You have no idea what anybody is.

Words have definitions...deal with it.

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In fact, by your posts, you don't have much of an idea of anything.

You have no education; your understanding of the subject matter is dim to nothing; you do not express coherent ideas, and whatever incoherent comments you post are filled with biased, dishonest remarks...you are an idiot by definition.

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I said you didn't answer what I wrote. You replied with "yes I did".

I answered your post by providing the verse from the Bible that self explains God as being all powerful, and therefore in control (according to the Bible): Ephesians 1:11 (NKJV)

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In the same post I asked why you were answering a question with a question. Y0u replied with "I haven't answered you yet"

This is what I wrote:

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What does the quote below mean to you? Does it mean that God is in control or not? Can you see it or should I explain it to you?

If you noticed, I asked you three questions without providing any answer to the EXPLANATION of the verse that I provided, which is self explanatory.

And in return you wrote this:

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You haven't answered what I wrote yet. Why are you answering with a question? There is a word game forum for that.

And I answered you that yes, I did provide you with the answer...with the verse that you seem not to understand. Regarding whether you understood the verse or not...it still qualifies as an answer to your question.

And when I told you that I haven't provided you with an answer, my post was directed to the explanation of the verse that you seem not to understand.

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You also said that one line from the bible sufficed to explain your positon.

This is my explanation of the verse that I posted:

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Well, the sentence reads "[...] Him who works all things [...]", which means that one of his attributes is being all powerful...and "[...] according to the counsel of His will [...]" means that He can do whatever he wants.

You are free to correct any mistake.

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You foolishly made this assumption. It did not.

I did not make any assumptions. I took a verse from the Bible that supports my argument...it was not a guess.

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You also claim not to believe in God, but you blame God for a preacher being killed as the premise for this thread.

Again, I'm an atheist...and I go right alone with you with the assumption that God exists to show you how nonsensical and ironic your belief is.

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You seem to be confused.

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@tsarstepan,

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Let me get this straight... <<sigh>> ... you are a disillusioned former Christian turned atheist and this whole thread exists as a sting operation to secretly proselytize allegedly bible thumping Christians over to your side.

I was raised secular...never been religious. This thread exists only to provide creationists with critical thinking.

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I believe that you have fair and good intentions in your motives but your method is exploitative and mean spirited.

Thank you...but there is no other way to reason with some people.

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And do you really think your method of shock and awe forced conversion will change anybody's deep theological beliefs?

It is possible for people to change...my argumentative method is not meant to shock anybody...it is a reaction to the argumentative method of some creationists who appear to behave in an insane manner. I have previously said that I'm willing to argue any topic in a civil manner...but if you start going nuts, I would let you know. I'm going to leave you with a quote from Steven Weinberg that really provides me with the incentive in trying to wake some people up from their ignorance and intolerance:
"you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion."

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@Jason Proudmoore,

Seems fair. Have fun.

1 Reply

I can't believe this Proudmoore dude is wasting all this space and everyone's time, posting long diatribes about something he doesn't even believe in. I ask again: WHAT IS THE POINT?

1 Reply

God permits the execution of a pastor at His home.

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