farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 07:54 am
@alex240101,
Im gonna do this for Chrissmas , I promise. Then Ill come back and report on how it tastes after the next decennial.

Ive had barbecued chicken whjere they spray the chicken parts with a salt and vinegar wsh while they grille it. It tastess great and you dont need no damn barbecue sauces to hog up the chickeny goodness.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 08:05 am
@farmerman,
I don't eat chicken.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 02:32 pm
@dyslexia,
I didnt invite ya. But we do got beans at our outfit for you more rustic characters
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:16 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

Yup, it is. The object of brining is to get moisture into the bird not water log it, or bloat it. Osmosis baby... When you wash the bird, inside and out, the salt washes off.

Looks to me as if that ought to take water out of the bird.

Water will go from the low salt side to the high salt side in order to equalize the salinity.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:19 pm
@DrewDad,
I don't wanna think about science when i'm cooking, 'specially a holiday spread.

brining makes a very juicy, tasty bird.

(you're taking the zen out of it...)

dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:19 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

I didnt invite ya. But we do got beans at our outfit for you more rustic characters
yeah there you go man, I bean trying to talk lady Diane into stuffing (not really) I mean make turkey dressing featuring pinto beans but the damn bitch insists on cornbread dressing. I see divorce in my future based on refritos frijoles.
and Yes of course you invited me, so soon your forget?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:20 pm
@DrewDad,
while this is true, the osmotic pressure become equalized and then chem diffusion takes over and equalizes the salt content inside and outside the bird. Its a two part process. HOPLD ON!!

My orgasmic chemist partner states that the osmosis part is responsible for the drawing out of moisture from the bird and then the diffusion draws salt back in. BUT, then the salts break down the proteins which cause the bird to be higher in the solvent (water) which cause the osmosis to go the other way. HOL:Y ****!! its actually a small lab experiment. I suggest we get some salt, some water an two dyes, all measured out and we inject the turkey with one dye, put the other in the water to which salt has been added to a known vol of water. Then we let it go for a day and measure the concentrations of salt, dyes and the other dye in both the turkey and the water. We do this several times an, measuring the aliquots of the substances, we forget about the whole thing and by then itll be Thanksgiving.
Who the hell cares says I
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:23 pm
@Rockhead,
Cooking is all about chemistry, baby.

http://www.cookingforengineers.com/article/70/Brining

Quote:
What does brining do?
Brining is the soaking of meat in a solution of water and salt. Additional flavorings like sugar and spices can also me added, but salt is what makes a brine a brine (just like acid makes a marinade a marinade). This soaking causes the meat to gain some saltiness and flavoring while plumping it up with water so that after cooking it still contains a lot of juices.

The explanation for why brining works that I hear most often is that by surrounding the meat with salt water, salt and water are forced into the tissue through osmosis. Unfortunately, I've never been happy with that explanation. Osmosis is when a solvent (usually water or other liquid that can hold another substance, called the solute, in solution - like salt) moves from a low solute concentration (like the tissue of the meat) to a high solute concentration (like the salt water) through a semipermeable membrane (a surface that allows small particles to pass but not larger ones - like the cell membranes of our chicken or pork) to form an equilibrium. Hmmm... wait a minute. If that's true then water will be drawn from the low salt concentration meat to the high salt concentration salt water. At the same time, if the salt can enter the meat (which it can), then salt will be moving from salt water to meat. Won't that result in a salty, dry piece of poultry or pork?

Obviously, there's more going on than simple osmosis. It is true that salt enters the meat (it tastes more salty after brining). But why is it also more juicy? Well, when water flows out of the meat, salt flows in and begins to break down some of the proteins in the cells. In the broken down state, the molecules become more concentrated and the solute levels rise within the meat. This causes additional water to flow into the meat.

But doesn't that mean we've got the same amount of water as before brining? Nope. The cell membranes are semipermeable. They allow salt and water to flow in both directions freely, but larger molecules (like the denatured proteins and other solutes in the meat released by the salt) cannot flow out from within the cells. When the solutes of a solution on one side of a semipermeable membrane cannot pass to the other side, osmosis causes more and more solvent to move through the semipermeable membrane. This continues until the extra pressure from holding more solvent equals the rate at which solvent is "drawn" through the semipermeable membrane. (This rate is called osmotic pressure. How Stuff Works has a short article describing osmotic pressure with a diagram that may be helpful to visualize the water flow.)

What has happened is that through brining, we've caused a state change in the cells so that they will draw and hold more water than before. As we cook the meat, the heated proteins will begin to draw in tighter and squeeze out water, but, hopefully, enough water will remain to produce a juicy, tender piece of meat.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:23 pm
@DrewDad,
so is zen...
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:25 pm
@Rockhead,
Following recipes is just alchemy.

Real chefs use science. Wink
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:29 pm
@farmerman,
I meant that the turkey will be higher In solute from the broken proteins and the solVENT will be drawn back in and add extra moisture. Does anybody out there really give a duck fart?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 03:30 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
My orgasmic chemist partner

What did you say? "Just a minute, dear, while I post this reply on the Internet...."
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 08:13 pm
My late fiancee was of Portuguese descent and used to make a stuffing that was like a pretty standard bread and spices and celery etc stuffing EXCEPT that it also had chunks of portuguese sausage (chourico) and walnuts. I could not get ENOUGH of that stuffing!
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 09:27 pm
@jjorge,
That does sound good.

Not to be gooey, but I'm glad you're back, jjorge.
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Nov, 2009 09:34 pm
@ossobuco,
thanks osso!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2009 09:47 pm
@jjorge,
Assuming I dont have a fever, Ill be doing stuffings and the Turkey on Thankgiving. So I am leaning toward a sausage cornbread stuffing and a chestnut resin stuffing.

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2009 09:53 pm
@farmerman,
Chestnut resin?
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Nov, 2009 10:09 pm
@farmerman,
sounds good! --that is assuming you meant raisin. :-)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 05:57 am
@jjorge,
Raisins ,yah, my resin stuffing has a more plastic consistency.
0 Replies
 
BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 25 Nov, 2009 01:24 pm
My "stuffing" comes in a cardboard box.

However, my SIL has a supposedly-delicious giblet gravy recipe, as follows:
-----------------------------------------------
Cook neck, and giblets (not the liver) for gravy using about 2-3 cups water. Cover pan when reaches boiling and cook on low heat about an hour or until meat is tender. Add salt and pepper to taste.

Cut giblets and neck meat in small pieces and put back in the broth. Add juice from the turkey pan to the broth for gravy.

Blend 2 to 3 tablespoons of flour with a little cold water in a bowl to make a thin, smooth paste. Add the blended flour mixture with the broth which has been heating. Stir constantly to prevent lumping. Thicken to desired thickness and if you need more gravy add canned chicken broth (or a jar of gravy) to the gravy.
-------------------------------------------

What _I_ do with giblets is a bit different: Take the gooey bits (no bones/necks, thanks) and stick them in the microwave until well-cooked. Then, feed them to the pets.
 

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