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The Rapture of the Church

 
 
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 08:50 pm
Do you believe in the rapture of the church? If yes, why? If not, why?
 
NickFun
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 09:42 pm
I've always thought it was a load of crap. I guess I'm not getting one of those rapture bodies. Oh well!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 09:43 pm
I hope they leave the keys to their cars out in plain sight, where it will be easy to find them.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Aug, 2009 09:51 pm
I was raised with vivid pictures of the rapture in my head, and used to worry about big cities like Chicago and what if it happened during rush hour.

I thought of this one day many years later as I drove across the city on 294, and had to chuckle...

there is no God in the Chicago commute system.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:29 am
@nycfunction,
nycfunction wrote:
Do you believe in the rapture of the church? If yes, why? If not, why?

No. Because the whole premise is silly.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:36 am
I have a postcard of The Rapture (image attached). It was done before 9/11 so the plane embedded in the building was the artist's idea. JC has been dead for over 2000 years, that's a long time not to hear from someone. I don't put much stock in the idea myself, but I like the picture.

http://www.boingboing.net/images/th_rapture.jpg
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:50 am
@nycfunction,

People have returned from death in hospitals.
About a third of them remember having adventures
while their human bodies were dead.

Some of them have described what amounts to an individual,
personal ascension and contact with Higher Intelligence

www.IANDS.org



David
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:53 am
@nycfunction,
nycfunction wrote:

Do you believe in the rapture of the church? If yes, why? If not, why?


No, I don't believe in it or any other supposedly literal interpretations of the bible. It always amazes me that those who take the most bible most literally interpret it most freely.
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 06:57 am
@OmSigDAVID,
But why do Buddhists meet Buddha and Muslims meet Mohammed in these encounters? Atheists tend to meet up with favorite pets or friends. Catholics often see Mary or a favorite saint. If Jesus is the only way to be accepted into the Rapture - why do other figures appear in these near death encounters? A lot of science has been done on these experiences and they seem to be controlled by a specific part of the brain the creates illusions and dreams. You can look it up if you are interested.
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 07:01 am
@Green Witch,
first thanks for the new desktop, that picture is great

second, your right about the brain, scientist first discovered the white light/body disconnect while studying pilots in centrifuges, pilots would blackout and describe the same sensations that people describe in mear death experiences, it all has to do with the brain and blood oxygen deprevation
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 07:25 am
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
Quote:
But why do Buddhists meet Buddha and Muslims meet Mohammed in these encounters?
Atheists tend to meet up with favorite pets or friends.
Catholics often see Mary or a favorite saint.
That is factually incorrect.
What have been seen are friends n relatives, and White Light,
or sometimes different colors of Light. I 've heard that Asians
r more likely to see different colors of Light.






Green Witch wrote:
Quote:
If Jesus is the only way to be accepted into the Rapture -
why do other figures appear in these near death encounters?
See above; some people have interpreted the Light as being Jesus.
No one has ever reported being rejected for membership in the rong religion,
except atheists. Thay reported some problems.





Green Witch wrote:
Quote:
A lot of science has been done on these experiences and they seem to be controlled
by a specific part of the brain the creates illusions and dreams. You can look it up if you are interested.
This is in error; indeed, some decedents have disinherited some of their relatives
who those decedents saw bad mouthing them, while awaiting news
in hospitals' waiting rooms with the rest of their families.

Some survivors of death have made observations during
their periods of "death" that were later verified n confirmed.

I have met some of them.





David
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:01 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
I have met some of them.
yes david I'm sure you have.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:05 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
I have met some of them.
yes david I'm sure you have.
I 'm glad u r sure, Dys.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:08 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
People have returned from death in hospitals.

No they haven't. Nobody has ever returned from being DEAD.

All these people have returned from is being dead by the subjective definition of lack of certain physiological functions.

If they were really DEAD, then they wouldn't return, that's kind of the definition of being DEAD.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:10 am

In October, we r going to have our annual convention
of people who have returned from "death" in hospitals
and M.D.s who study this phenomenon.


www.IANDS.org

We 'll be in San Diego, this year.





David
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:12 am
@OmSigDAVID,
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/triggers06.html

The Trigger of Gravity

Dr. James Winnery's NDE research

The scientific method requires a phenomenon to be able to be reproducible under laboratory conditions for it to be declared a "real" phenomenon. In the early days, near-death experiences were thought by some to be just "phantom" visions and nothing more than imagination. But then Dr. James E. Whinnery, a chemistry professor with West Texas A&M, became involved with research involving fighter pilots being subjected to extreme gravitational forces in a giant centrifuge to simulate the extreme conditions that can occur during aerial combat maneuvering. Strangely enough, it turns out that under extreme g-forces, fighter pilots lose consciousness and have a near-death experience. Whinnery wrote a technical report for the National Institute for Discovery Science about the phenomenon and in doing so proved the near-death experience to be a real phenomenon. The following is a summary of his technical report of how NDEs are triggered by severe gravitational forces.

Scientific research has tried to unlock the secrets of death and what happens to consciousness after death. Our scientific understanding of the mind / brain chemistry involved in the processes of death remains relatively limited. In spite of the findings reported from these studies, little emphasis has been placed on the loss of consciousness. The results of the loss and recovery of consciousness experiments in healthy humans may provide insight into the normal processes in the brain that occurs in association with NDEs.

This report focuses on the mind/brain events associated with acceleration gravitationally-induced loss of consciousness, also known as G-LOC, in completely healthy individuals. Acceleration of gravitational stress is a unique aspect of flying fighter aircraft during aerial combat maneuvering. Modern fighter aircraft can attain high levels of gravitational forces that puts most humans at risk for G-LOC.

The gravitational-stress reduces blood flow to the head and causes pooling of blood in the abdomen and extremities which result in G-LOC. A solution for the G-LOC problem requires a thorough understanding of the alterations of consciousness. Although preventing further losses of aircrew and aircraft is the goal of fighter aviation medicine, the results from experiments involving G-LOC in completely healthy humans should be of interest to a broad range of scientific disciplines.

The results to be discussed represent data collected from over fifteen years of acceleration research and more than 700 episodes of G-LOC that occurred in fighter aircraft and during gravitational centrifuge exposure. The research subjects averaged in age of 32 years. All of them were healthy after having successfully completed a military physical examination. The G-LOC episodes from the centrifuge were all recorded on videotape for analysis.

When gravitational stress is applied well above tolerance, there is a short time period during which normal brain function persists, despite loss of adequate blood flow. At the end of this period, consciousness is lost, and the gravitational stress is reduced back to normal conditions. The length of the unconsciousness averaged 12 seconds with a -5 to +5 standard deviation and a range of 2 to 38 seconds. The estimated average length of time blood flow to the central nervous system was altered during the loss and recovery of consciousness was approximately 15 to 20 seconds.

Convulsive activity was observed in 70% of the G-LOC episodes. The convulsive activity began on the average 7.7 seconds after the onset of unconsciousness and lasted 3.9 seconds. The convulsions would cease with the return of consciousness. Upon recovery of consciousness, there is a period of relative incapacitation that lasts on the average about 12 seconds, in which there exists confusion/disorientation.

It is possible to classify the G-LOC episodes. The G-LOC experience includes specific visual symptoms (tunnel vision through blackout), convulsive activity, memory alterations, dreamlets, and other psychological symptoms. The major, overall G-LOC experience characteristics that have commonality with NDEs are shown below.

Tunnel vision / bright light
Floating
Automatic movement
Autoscopy
Out-of-body experience
Not wanting to be disturbed
Paralysis
Vivid dreamlets / beautiful places
a. Euphoria
b. Dissociation
Pleasurable
Psychologic state alteration
Friends / family inclusion
Prior memories / thoughts inclusion
Very memorable (when remembered)
Confabulation
Strong urge to understand

The G-LOC syndrome, however, suggests that loss of consciousness may be considered to be an evolutionarily developed protective mechanism that is evoked in a stepwise sequence in the face of excessive gravitational stress, well before any pathologic alterations of the nervous system occurs. Specific states of consciousness, subconsciousness, and unconsciousness are induced during loss and recovery of consciousness. One additional state of consciousness, a state that corresponds to a critically low range of blood flow, is where death occurs. The magnitude and duration of the gravity induced reduction of activity in the cephalic nervous system determines just how near to the state of death the individual comes.

Conclusions

Altered brain states, whether resulting from G-LOC or the NDE, can produce vivid experiences to those who have them. Some differences between G-LOC and the NDE would be expected, if for no other reasons than the circumstances that cause them and the magnitude of the insults to the nervous system, which are different. The G-LOC syndrome symptoms are the normal responses of completely healthy individuals to relatively minimal periods of cephalic nervous system ischemia. If there are unique characteristics associated with the NDE, then their isolation would appear to be facilitated by focusing on what the real differences are in the individuals, their physical states, the environmental situation, the type of insult, and the symptomology between G-LOC and the NDE.

The mind / brain events of the NDE may be at least partially open to experimental investigation in healthy humans and not solely upon clinical happenstance. The need to understand the states of consciousness, subconsciousness, and unconsciousness, along with the mechanisms that cause the transition between these states is shared by those investigating NDEs and G-LOC.

Loss-of-consciousness episodes of all types appear to have an explainable physiologic basis. They are, therefore, open for scientific investigation. At least the loss of consciousness aspect of the NDE, therefore, has a potentially explainable and experimentally explorable basis. It would be odd if the symptoms associated with loss and recovery of consciousness were not part of the NDE. The fact that many of the NDE symptoms are very similar to those resulting from loss and recovery of consciousness suggests that individuals who report their NDEs have provided accurate symptom descriptions. This includes those symptoms beyond the scope of G-LOC experimentation, which are unique to the NDE.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:24 am
@rosborne979,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
People have returned from death in hospitals.

rosborne979 wrote:
Quote:
No they haven't. Nobody has ever returned from being DEAD.

Agreed, in the sense that no one has ever been dead.
He only molts off his outer covering,
like a radio wave or a sound wave leaving a radio.



rosborne979 wrote:
Quote:
All these people have returned from is being dead
by the subjective definition of lack of certain physiological functions.

If they were really DEAD, then they wouldn't return,
that's kind of the definition of being DEAD.
That is an arbitrary definition
and therefore, not worthy of credence nor respect.

I still accept the old definition of no heartbeat, no respiration nor EEG for a few minutes.

dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:33 am
Quote:
I still accept the old definition of no heartbeat, no respiration nor EEG for a few minutes.
yes of course david, it's often best to rely on definitions which are most convenient to one's agenda. other definitons would require considerations perhaps inconsistent for one's desired outcome.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 08:39 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:
It always amazes me that those who take the most bible most literally interpret it most freely.

We have a winnah!

http://www.destructoid.com/elephant/ul/100806-freeinternetei8.jpg
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Aug, 2009 11:34 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

Quote:
I still accept the old definition of no heartbeat, no respiration nor EEG for a few minutes.
yes of course david, it's often best to rely on definitions which are most convenient to one's agenda.
other definitons would require considerations perhaps inconsistent for one's desired outcome.
Whatever u believe or reject has no effect on ME.
We r not putting it to a vote.
The facts r what thay r.

I had an NDE during surgery in 2005, of which I have no memory
+ a few out-of-body experiences. Thay r sufficient to satisfy my curiousity.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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