14
   

The Rapture of the Church

 
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 11:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Some folks act like thay have a strong emotional investment in wearing out of the human body being the end of conscious existence.

I wonder Y that IS ?

I think you're so emotionally involved in your own desires that you are reading into (erroneously) other people's intents.

All I've been pointing out is that nobody has ever returned from being REALLY dead.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 11:28 am
@rosborne979,
or SUFFICIENTLY dead
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 11:34 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Some folks act like thay have a strong emotional investment
in wearing out of the human body being the end of conscious existence.

I wonder Y that IS ?

Because just as you can't conceive of the end of conscious existence, they have no conception of where the heck they'll be if it's NOT the end of conscious existence.

We'll all find out one way or the other when it's all 'over'
( as Skeptical- so truthfully said).

I'm like him - if nothing else, I think it'll be really interesting- one way or the other.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 01:27 pm
@aidan,
I understand the end of conscious existence quite well.

I didn't exist for billions of years before I was conceived. After I die, it will be just the same.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 01:44 pm
@rosborne979,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Some folks act like thay have a strong emotional investment
in wearing out of the human body being the end of conscious existence.

I wonder Y that IS ?


rosborne979 wrote:
Quote:
I think you're so emotionally involved in your own desires
that you are reading into (erroneously) other people's intents.
U don t know the operative facts; e.g., once over dinner
with a very intelligent lady who worked as a mathematician
on the Manhattan Project in WWII, she lamented that the worst
pain in her life was the death of her little boy. That troubled her
for years and decades. In an effort to comfort her, I mentioned
some authors who 've written about the conscious mind being
unaffected by death and continuing to live, whereupon,
(unexpectedly) she started screaming loudly being heard thru out
the restaurant: "MY SON IS JUST A PILE OF ROTTEN MEAT IN THE GRAVE."
Other reactions have been less noisy, but shown the victims
of sadness of loss to have been ill-at-ease at the thought of
their relatives living on, instead of being fully extinguished.

I wonder about that.


Other people are comforted.




Quote:
All I've been pointing out is that nobody has ever returned from being REALLY dead.
U define that so as to make it devoid of meaning. If someone returns from whatever state
u designate, u put the target further away. That is not helpful to anything.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 01:48 pm
@aidan,
aidan wrote:

Quote:
Some folks act like thay have a strong emotional investment
in wearing out of the human body being the end of conscious existence.

I wonder Y that IS ?

Quote:
Because just as you can't conceive of the end of conscious existence,
they have no conception of where the heck they'll be if it's NOT the end of conscious existence.
U r raising fears of hellish circumstances ?

OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 01:53 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:
Quote:
I understand the end of conscious existence quite well.

I didn't exist for billions of years before I was conceived.

That is factual error.




ebrown p wrote:
Quote:

After I die, it will be just the same.

U will be as alive as u were before u were conceived.
Remember not to confuse your SELF with your human body.
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:06 pm
Here is an interesting service-- Eternal Earthbound Pets

Quote:
You've committed your life to Jesus. You know you're saved. But when the Rapture comes what's to become of your loving pets who are left behind? Eternal Earth-Bound Pets takes that burden off your mind.

We are a group of dedicated animal lovers, and atheists. Each
Eternal Earth-Bound Pet representative is a confirmed atheist, and as such will still be here on Earth after you've received your reward. Our network of animal activists are committed to step in when you step up to Jesus.


Quote:

* Eternal Earth-Bound Pets, USA (EE-BP) is not liable, and no refunds will be made, in the event of the loss, death, sale, or transfer of a subscriber's pet(s) prior to the Rapture and during the coverage period of the contract.
* Service period commences with receipt of payment. Service contract expires ten (10) years from date of receipt of payment.
* Change in address of the original owner/subscriber residence will be honored upon notification via email to EE-BP as long as the new address is within EE-BP's existing service area. No refunds will be made for address changes outside of EE-BP's service area during the contract period. Our service covers only one (1) rescue address per contract and fee.
* In the event of the death of the subscribing pet owner prior to the Rapture the contract will remain in effect. EE-BP will continue to honor the contract for the remainder of the contract period. We do not adopt / rescue animals except as a result of the Rapture occurance.
* If subscriber loses his/her faith and/or the Rapture occurs and subscriber is not Raptured (aka is "left behind") EE-BP disclaims any liability; no refund will be tendered.
* Should a relative residing within the rescue location not be Raptured and opts to retain the pet(s), EE-BP will not take posession of the pet(s). No refund will be tendered.


http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/Home_Page.html
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 04:27 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:

U will be as alive as u were before u were conceived.
Remember not to confuse your SELF with your human body.


David... you are saying that humans exist (as selves) before a sperm meets an egg?

This would mean some kind of limit, wouldn't it... what happens when the supply of selves runs out? Does that mean no more humans?

How many selves are there? Of course, if there are trillions of selves in some universal holding vat, that raises the question of what happens to the poor souls who never get a body.



OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 11:22 pm
@ebrown p,
I doubt that it is wise
to get too metaphysical on this forum,
but I am somewhat disinclinded to refuse to answer direct questions



David wrote:
Quote:

U will be as alive as u were before u were conceived.
Remember not to confuse your SELF with your human body.

ebrown p wrote:
Quote:
David... you are saying that humans exist (as selves)
before a sperm meets an egg?
We define humans as having material bodies,
therefore, the answer to your question is: no.






ebrown p wrote:
Quote:
This would mean some kind of limit, wouldn't it...
what happens when the supply of selves runs out?
In some Eastern philosophies, it is represented this way:
the Moon can be seen reflected in many places
on a tempestuous lake, but that does not affect
the Moon, nor its number.

Once I counted myself reflected in 47 places in the mirrors
of the ante-chamber to my bathroom in my suite at the Tropicana
Hotel in Las Vegas; I stopped counting at 47. There was only one of me.



ebrown p wrote:
Quote:
Does that mean no more humans?
No.


ebrown p wrote:
Quote:
How many selves are there?

1








ebrown p wrote:
Quote:
Of course, if there are trillions of selves in some universal holding vat,
that raises the question of what happens to the poor souls who never get a body.
Perhaps u 'd like to think of it
as a rain drop who falls back into the ocean whence he came,
before he evaporates, ascends and falls again . . . .





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Aug, 2009 11:43 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:

Here is an interesting service-- Eternal Earthbound Pets

Quote:
You've committed your life to Jesus. You know you're saved. But when the Rapture comes what's to become of your loving pets who are left behind? Eternal Earth-Bound Pets takes that burden off your mind.

We are a group of dedicated animal lovers, and atheists. Each
Eternal Earth-Bound Pet representative is a confirmed atheist, and as such will still be here on Earth after you've received your reward. Our network of animal activists are committed to step in when you step up to Jesus.


Quote:

* Eternal Earth-Bound Pets, USA (EE-BP) is not liable, and no refunds will be made, in the event of the loss, death, sale, or transfer of a subscriber's pet(s) prior to the Rapture and during the coverage period of the contract.
* Service period commences with receipt of payment. Service contract expires ten (10) years from date of receipt of payment.
* Change in address of the original owner/subscriber residence will be honored upon notification via email to EE-BP as long as the new address is within EE-BP's existing service area. No refunds will be made for address changes outside of EE-BP's service area during the contract period. Our service covers only one (1) rescue address per contract and fee.
* In the event of the death of the subscribing pet owner prior to the Rapture the contract will remain in effect. EE-BP will continue to honor the contract for the remainder of the contract period. We do not adopt / rescue animals except as a result of the Rapture occurance.
* If subscriber loses his/her faith and/or the Rapture occurs and subscriber is not Raptured (aka is "left behind") EE-BP disclaims any liability; no refund will be tendered.
* Should a relative residing within the rescue location not be Raptured and opts to retain the pet(s), EE-BP will not take posession of the pet(s). No refund will be tendered.


http://eternal-earthbound-pets.com/Home_Page.html

Co-incidentally, a few hours ago,
I saw a show called I Survived on the BIO.HD Channel,
of 3 people who were killed n returned to life,
one of whom reported dogs n cats being seen on her way toward the Light.

I find it interesting that such people tell us of having absolutely no fear of re-death.

This was true of my "dead" friend, Neil, whose body died about 12 times
in the Veterans' Hospital in Las Vegas in 1988.

I went to see him. (I don 't need much excuse to go to Las Vegas.)
He picked me up at the Airport. I joked with him that I 'd spring
for a memorial service for him, but he 'd have to deliver the eulogy,
since he knew his life a lot better than anyone else.
He did not go for it. maybe too modest





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 01:35 am
I found it significant that one of the decedents who rendered their personal histories
on that cable TV show that I mentioned I Survived ...To Death and Back
said that while she was out of her material body,
(medically in a state of death) she saw her parents and her
2 grandmothers in the hospital cafeteria, when her father said
that he had to go out for a smoke. Her grandmothers had never
smoked, apparently anti-smoking, but under the stress of her
life-threatening accident, first one of them asked to join him
and then the other one did also, and so
thay went out and joined him in having cigarettes,
their first cigarettes.

In conversation with her mother 2 weeks later, after regaining consciousness,
she told her mother of seeing the cigarette incident
and blew her mother's mind, for knowing exactly what happened & how it happened.
Her mother confirmed her astonishment, speaking on the show.

One fellow spoke of our waking reality as being like a phantom,
dream-like, in comparison to the stark reality of being out of his body
in the other realm of existence.

He complained of being kicked out of Heaven
and forced back into his much smaller human body.





David
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 01:57 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Here is an interesting service-- Eternal Earthbound Pets

Quote:

You've committed your life to Jesus. You know you're saved. But when the Rapture comes what's to become of your loving pets who are left behind? Eternal Earth-Bound Pets takes that burden off your mind.

We are a group of dedicated animal lovers, and atheists. Each
Eternal Earth-Bound Pet representative is a confirmed atheist, and as such will still be here on Earth after you've received your reward. Our network of animal activists are committed to step in when you step up to Jesus.



Quote:


* Eternal Earth-Bound Pets, USA (EE-BP) is not liable, and no refunds will be made, in the event of the loss, death, sale, or transfer of a subscriber's pet(s) prior to the Rapture and during the coverage period of the contract.
* Service period commences with receipt of payment. Service contract expires ten (10) years from date of receipt of payment.
* Change in address of the original owner/subscriber residence will be honored upon notification via email to EE-BP as long as the new address is within EE-BP's existing service area. No refunds will be made for address changes outside of EE-BP's service area during the contract period. Our service covers only one (1) rescue address per contract and fee.
* In the event of the death of the subscribing pet owner prior to the Rapture the contract will remain in effect. EE-BP will continue to honor the contract for the remainder of the contract period. We do not adopt / rescue animals except as a result of the Rapture occurance.
* If subscriber loses his/her faith and/or the Rapture occurs and subscriber is not Raptured (aka is "left behind") EE-BP disclaims any liability; no refund will be tendered.
* Should a relative residing within the rescue location not be Raptured and opts to retain the pet(s), EE-BP will not take posession of the pet(s). No refund will be tendered.
Laughing Laughing Laughing
See it's not only the televangelists asking for money. Now the atheists are trying to chase down some of that christian dough.

This was my laugh for the morning - thanks David.
0 Replies
 
aidan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 02:00 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
U r raising fears of hellish circumstances ?

No - no fears of that. I just meant to point out that the scope of consciousness is different for different people.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 08:07 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
In an effort to comfort her, I mentioned
some authors who 've written about the conscious mind being
unaffected by death and continuing to live, whereupon,
(unexpectedly) she started screaming loudly being heard thru out
the restaurant: "MY SON IS JUST A PILE OF ROTTEN MEAT IN THE GRAVE."
Other reactions have been less noisy, but shown the victims
of sadness of loss to have been ill-at-ease at the thought of
their relatives living on, instead of being fully extinguished.

I wonder about that.

Such losses can be emotionally devastating. Many people don't react rationally, but go through various stages of grief. I guess I don't find emotional reactions very surprising.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 08:10 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:
All I've been pointing out is that nobody has ever returned from being REALLY dead.
U define that so as to make it devoid of meaning. If someone returns from whatever state
u designate, u put the target further away. That is not helpful to anything.

Ok, I'll accept the following definition: "Death is the irreversible termination of the biological functions that define a living organism. It refers to both a particular event and to the condition that results thereby." Does that make more sense to you?
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 05:59 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:
All I've been pointing out is that nobody has ever returned from being REALLY dead.
U define that so as to make it devoid of meaning. If someone returns from whatever state
u designate, u put the target further away. That is not helpful to anything.

Ok, I'll accept the following definition: "Death is the irreversible termination of the biological functions that define a living organism. It refers to both a particular event and to the condition that results thereby." Does that make more sense to you?

No. I 'll stay with the definition that I learned when I was a kid:
no heartbeat n no respiration for a few minutes;
even half a minute 'd qualify, for the duration thereof.

It does not make any difference.
Definitions will have no effect upon what actually happens
(except that suicides and atheists have reported problems).





David
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2009 06:12 pm
Now that is really hilarious . . . suicides have reported ? ! ? ! ? How many reports can be reasonably ascribed to suicides? Is it not axiomatic that suicides have nothing to say, on any subject?

Are we still talking about the rapture?
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Sep, 2009 07:42 pm
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5236/religion.jpg
0 Replies
 
Pemerson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Sep, 2009 12:58 pm
The Rapture of the Church?
Seems to me that meant, when I was a kid, that at the "end of the world" those who had been good were taken up into Heaven, the rest, well, who knows, but probably died with the world.

That is not a near death experience, which must mean your body has died but comes alive again - and, you recall (some do) a few minutes of what transpires while you are "dead."

So, which of those should we reply to? The first, I think, nobody would know anything about until their spirit found itself in a wonderful place.

The latter, well, is a very wonderful thing to know about or have happen to you. It could mean that you have great things to accomplish for totally unselfish reasons, or that you have a message to impart to others.

Has anyone who has had such experiences ever mentioned a connection with "The Church?" i.e., did they have to check out?
0 Replies
 
 

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