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Are Savant Autistics intelligent?

 
 
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 10:17 pm
Are the people that have the abilities that no one else on earth match but in such a narrow place intelligent?

They may not be able to tell you what 1 + 1 is (dont start wise cracking on the 1 + 1 please) but they can play an extended mozart piece back to you on a piano perfectly. Is that intelligent?
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 10:20 pm
absolutely... music is math too.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 10:25 pm
@Ogitoc groe sum,
First, you have to define "intelligence."
Ogitoc groe sum
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 10:27 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Intelligence in my mind is yet to be defined but for this issue im talking avbout the current general opinion.
0 Replies
 
Ogitoc groe sum
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Aug, 2009 10:34 pm
@Ceili,
you also get linguistic savants who can speak up to id say about 12+ languages and maybe learn one... look up daniel tammet.
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rosborne979
 
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Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 06:02 am
@Ogitoc groe sum,
Ogitoc groe sum wrote:
Are the people that have the abilities that no one else on earth match but in such a narrow place intelligent?

Of course. But dogs and cats and people are all intelligent. I think you need to refine your question a bit before it can be answered effectively.
Ogitoc groe sum
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 08:22 am
@rosborne979,
intelligence in this case reffering to the current view of intelligence in humans, if it involved animals i would have involved animals within the question proposed.
fresco
 
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Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 01:58 pm
@Ogitoc groe sum,
Quote:
the current view of intelligence in humans
???

That's ducking rosborne's question. There isn't a single "current view".For example, one definition of "intelligence" in psychology is "the capacity to delay a reponse". Since autism often involves triggered ritual behaviour, one might label that as "unintelligent". On the other hand, those who study autistics often report "unique strategies for problem solving" a faculty which might be labelled "genius" in so called "normals".

A key issue is that language users and language is socially acquired. So since autism is often characterized by failure to make social connections, the autistic is unlikely to be able to communicate his/her cognitiive abilities adequately. i.e. there may be "latent intelligence" which remains covert.
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aidan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Aug, 2009 03:20 pm
@Ogitoc groe sum,
There is what is described as intellectual breadth and intellectual depth. I think the case of the typical savant could be described as having intellectual depth without very much accompanying breadth (of subjects in which they are knowledgeable or show marked intelligence).

But yes, I'd say they possess a unique and sometimes extremely impressive sort of intelligence, specifically because it seems to be innate and seemingly springs from nowhere - like an amazing or miraculous gift or talent.
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Lifeisart
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 07:39 pm
@Ogitoc groe sum,
Intelligence is currently defined as the ability to learn from experience, to think rationally, and to deal with others.

While a savant can play extremely difficult pieces of music or remember certain things like dates, people, facts, etc., it does not necessarily make them intelligent. They have the ability to learn, but thinking rationally and communicating with others can be impaired. They're like everyone else in the sense that they excell in certain areas, but are averge/below average in others.
Merry Andrew
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Nov, 2009 09:44 pm
@Lifeisart,
Lifeisart wrote:

Intelligence is currently defined as the ability to learn from experience, to think rationally, and to deal with others.

While a savant can play extremely difficult pieces of music or remember certain things like dates, people, facts, etc., it does not necessarily make them intelligent. They have the ability to learn, but thinking rationally and communicating with others can be impaired. They're like everyone else in the sense that they excell in certain areas, but are averge/below average in others.


Exception.
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
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Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 01:40 pm
@Ogitoc groe sum,
Per se yes ..very actually, but often lack rationallity therefore usually ending up as a "Rain Man".
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Sep, 2010 01:45 pm
@Merry Andrew,
Hi MA, Where have you been hiding? Haven't seen nor heard from you and sglass. How about keeping in touch?
0 Replies
 
HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sun 17 Oct, 2010 11:10 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

absolutely... music is math too.
Rubbish! Mysic by itself has nothing to do with math, though you can make it as math when rationalizing it as math algorithms then put it in a file.

If music really was math, when all musicians would be math genouses, which they are not, or make all math genouses compose music and play instruments.

..I just don't understand your logic.
0 Replies
 
nuthinspeshal
 
  1  
Reply Sun 9 Oct, 2011 09:02 am
@Ogitoc groe sum,
It need be clarified that not all Autistic Savants are in the range of severe retardation. Many have overall I.Q.s in the normal to above average range. Also, being Savant doesn't necessarily mean that no one else on earth can do what that person does. It just means it rarer. What qualifies a person as Savant is a broad gap in I.Q.. If I recall, it may have been 40 points. The latest version of the Weschler would clarify how those scores are done. That being said, I are one.
Now, given that I did take the time to read this entire thread, I have to question my intelligence. I'd surmise that, no, I'm not that smart. winks.
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HexHammer
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Apr, 2012 11:28 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:
absolutely... music is math too.
No?
Many music savants isn't excatly renowed for their math intellect, but for their brilliant musical talent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ak2jxmhCH1M

Here in 60 min, it clearly shows that a music savants can't even put 2+2 together.
In neuroscience it's clearly defined that ones music side are seperate of the math part.
0 Replies
 
 

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