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Whats your opinion of Richard Dawkins?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 05:46 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
I gave up a community and , just because we have to be honest to ourselves, never needed to look back with any of the silliness that spendi and a few others spout, Like "Time is relative to earth processes and their interpretation", or "christianity has given us all our sciences"


How many more times do you need telling fm that declaring others in a debate to be silly is not an argument except insofar as it argues that you are silly and void of a scientific sensibility. You are silly because you have said nothing. Anybody can say anybody is silly. And considering the number of times I have explained the obvious principle to you it seems you are completely stupid as well.

I have not said that Christianity has given us all of our sciences. Your claim that I have demonstrates that you can't, or maybe won't, read my posts properly. But I will say that Christianity has given us the science that enables our unique culture to control nature to the extent that we do.

You seem to me to be as ignorant of western science as the average bottle washer. Your big-wordism relating to suck-it-and-see procedures doesn't fool me even if it does those you choose to declaim it to.

Your "spirits and devils" smear is a fatuity of the ignorant. It is a straw man to which you cling with the assididuity similar to that of a kid to a favourite doll.


0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 06:07 am
@ebrown p,
It's a waste of time debating with Thomas eb. He's not even a decent sophist.

Take this--

Quote:
I am not assuming that, I'm concluding it, having considered both kinds of arguments.


What the hell does that mean? What subjective mental states were involved in the "consideration"? He concluded what he wished to conclude for whatever reason.

In my experience such conclusions mainly derive from needing a justification for behaviours which Christianity disapproves of such as wanking, male homosexuality, adultery, complicity in abortion and pre-marital sex. Once such a need arises the justifications are trite and are no different today than they ever were. They are emotional at the roots.

Mr Dawkins is three times married. Obviously he needs to dispute Christian morality. How he does it is as old as the hills.

Anybody reading his books rather than reading the great writers of the world is not doing him or her self a favour.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 06:22 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Anybody reading his books rather than reading the great writers of the world is not doing him or her self a favour.
We can also thank our Christian forebears for such perfect thought control. Cmon shpndi, just allow everyone just read DAwkins for themselves without any editorial prompting from perfect vacuums like you .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 09:14 am
@farmerman,
It's their precious time I'm thinking of fm. It can be better spent than reading that sort of repetitive jargon when all it tells you is what you already know and are only reading it to be reassured that what you already know is correct.

Increments of proof that what you already know is correct. Like reading the Superbowl score over and over as if it is unbelieveable.

An atheist needing that is obviously a bit wobbly I should have thought.

And it's marketing, which I admire seeing as how unpromising the source is, means it is pop science.

It is also absurd as it is dependent on the controversy. If everybody accepted the arguments then there is no controversy and hence no need for the books.

I hope you are aware that the opposite of a perfect vacuum is infinite density.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 03:21 pm
@spendius,
Quote:


It's their precious time I'm thinking of fm. It can be better spent than reading that sort of repetitive jargon when all it tells you is what you already know
Spoken like a Christian Brother whos deathly afraid that someone may learn something useful to supplant all that doggie ma. .
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 04:26 pm
@farmerman,
Well fm--there is no real controversy in the Dawkins game. And it is a game. He has no input into organising society beyond a few trite and sweet sounding sentimentalisms that we can all readily agree with. It's about money and starlight pure and simple.

There is, however, an ongoing and permanent battle of the sexes. There is controversy there. The real thing.

Where is the entertainment industry with the Dawkins game? Where is the artertainment business with it? What has it to say about sexual politics?

Nowhere is the answer and you can't refute it. It just provides reassurance, which is called evidence, for atheists that they are right to be atheists. Over and over again. Like comforting.

When it comes to arguing I'm fearless. I don't have anybody on Ignore. You're at your assertion circularities again and your reverse invidious comparisons. I feel sorry for those they influence.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 04:49 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
When it comes to arguing I'm fearless.


Thats what ignorance can do for you, "seldom right but never in doubt"

Quote:
I don't have anybody on Ignore

Your mother must be so proud, cause I dont give a winter steamer.

Quote:
It's about money and starlight pure and simple.


see above


spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Mar, 2010 06:11 pm
@farmerman,
You live by assertions fm. It's a pitiful state to be in.

And if the one about not giving a winter steamer is true what are you doing on the forum.
0 Replies
 
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:14 pm
@dazza 480,
dazza 480 wrote:

is he a good scientist?
what do you think are his views on religion?

Richard Dawkins is a deeply rational and deeply humane human being. Which is why he is also an excellent scientist.

His views on religion are an inevitable function of the above.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:24 pm
@stevecook172001,
As are his views on marriage vows.
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:24 pm
@stevecook172001,
If religion was as Richard Dawkins depicted it, then I would be in complete agreement with him.

Personally I think he has a deep adjustment issue with regards to the Unknown (a.k.a. the unconcious, the irrational, the mysterious). I think this is why he is so angry about what he thinks of as religion. He projects all kinds of unconscious conflicts and fears onto it, demonizes it, and then loaths it. I think he believes that this will be cathartic, but I am sure it is not.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:26 pm
@dazza 480,
I think he gets misunderstood in some regards.

Yes he has an invested interest in scientific research and understanding. He sees that in some regards religion tries to snuff out scientific research or prevent science from advancing. Many religious people want to roll back the system to some early mind set and he is firmly opposed to these sorts of actions. So much so that he sounds like an activist against religion.

Something similar happens with me, but the way i see religion is that it has gone on long enough without any discipline. It is like a five year old child who has never been taught right from wrong. It just acts how ever it wants because everyone gives it the go ahead because it is taboo to discipline religion. I don't want to end religion, but i do want it to keep itself to itself and stay out of political and social decisions. If a person wants to be religious they should have that right to, no matter what religion it is, but they should not be allowed to impose their religious views onto society in any way.

I will always be an activist against religion until it meets the same criteria that everything else must adhere to. The day that religion accepts criticism without playing an off limits card and promises to keep to itself, is the day I will stop being a religious activist. I bet I'll die before that day comes.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:30 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

As are his views on marriage vows.

his views on marriage vows are not something you or I can know. His breaking of his marriage vows makes him as fragile as the next human in this regard. Is this the best you can come up with to den't his reputation as a major intellectual and cultural contributer of our time?....

dear me, you must try harder..... Laughing
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:34 pm
@Krumple,
Krumple wrote:

I think he gets misunderstood in some regards.

Yes he has an invested interest in scientific research and understanding. He sees that in some regards religion tries to snuff out scientific research or prevent science from advancing. Many religious people want to roll back the system to some early mind set and he is firmly opposed to these sorts of actions. So much so that he sounds like an activist against religion.

Something similar happens with me, but the way i see religion is that it has gone on long enough without any discipline. It is like a five year old child who has never been taught right from wrong. It just acts how ever it wants because everyone gives it the go ahead because it is taboo to discipline religion. I don't want to end religion, but i do want it to keep itself to itself and stay out of political and social decisions. If a person wants to be religious they should have that right to, no matter what religion it is, but they should not be allowed to impose their religious views onto society in any way.

I will always be an activist against religion until it meets the same criteria that everything else must adhere to. The day that religion accepts criticism without playing an off limits card and promises to keep to itself, is the day I will stop being a religious activist. I bet I'll die before that day comes.

I would agree with this Krumple and would go further.

Religion, by definition, is an irrational belief system. Being such, the only way it can be culturally perpetuated is via the unreasonable methods it employs. If religion employed reason, it would cease to exist.

In other words, religion and reason is an oxymoron
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:37 pm
@stevecook172001,
Bollocks. I know blokes who stick to their marriage vows under the severest pressure. Fragile narcissists are another matter. Dawkins is forming a party of them. Are you in it?



0 Replies
 
jeeprs
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:37 pm
Basically Dawkins historicism of religion is as follows:

Quote:
Dawkins's message is basically that we are social animals on an evolutionary trajectory to ever more rational and therefore higher moral standards, but that the process has been derailed somewhere along the line by the appearance of religion. It had looked until recently as though we were shaking off religion and entering an Age of Reason. But now, with the rise of religious fundamentalism, there is a relapse which accounts for the world's present troubles. Nevertheless, thanks to the enlightenment Science brings, we can root out religion and get back on track.

The Dawkins historicist variant of a trajectory from a primitive idealised state to a later higher one being knocked off course by religion derives from a particular Protestant historicism within the overall Christian pattern. This is the idea that the original Christianity of the New Testament has been corrupted by Catholicism but brought back on course by Protestantism, thanks to a messiah figure, Martin Luther.

In this context, we need to bear in mind that there is a very important sense in which 'religion' [2] has been a dirty word for Protestants. It has stood for all those aspects of Catholic Christianity which they rejected at the Reformation: idolatry, superstition, tradition, hierarchy, authoritarianism, mumbo-jumbo, whatever.

Overall, what Dawkins has done is generalise on the Protestant historicism. In his basic scheme, primitive Christianity has been replaced by a primal human state, Catholicism as bad 'religion' has been replaced by religion in general and the Protestant Reformation by the Scientific Revolution, by the discovery of evolution by natural selection in particular. The Protestant Age is of course replaced by the Age of Science and Reason.


From The Protestant Atheism of Richard Dawkins

However there are many questions which Dawkins does not even begin to comprehend. One of them is: why is radical Islam convinced that Western Society is actually satanic in origin, and are therefore prepared to go to such hideous extremes in order to destroy it? Why do they believe they are engaged in a 'cosmic war' of 'good against evil'?

If religious culture is and always been based on a delusion, why is it ubiquitous throughout society, culture and history?

It is very easy, having decided that religion is delusion, to proceed on that basis; as my late father used to say, such questions are always easy for those with black-and-white views.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:39 pm
personally I think Dawkins is an arrogant asshole.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:42 pm
@dyslexia,
So do I dys.
stevecook172001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:44 pm
@jeeprs,
jeeprs wrote:

Basically Dawkins historicism of religion is as follows:

Quote:
Dawkins's message is basically that we are social animals on an evolutionary trajectory to ever more rational and therefore higher moral standards, but that the process has been derailed somewhere along the line by the appearance of religion. It had looked until recently as though we were shaking off religion and entering an Age of Reason. But now, with the rise of religious fundamentalism, there is a relapse which accounts for the world's present troubles. Nevertheless, thanks to the enlightenment Science brings, we can root out religion and get back on track.

The Dawkins historicist variant of a trajectory from a primitive idealised state to a later higher one being knocked off course by religion derives from a particular Protestant historicism within the overall Christian pattern. This is the idea that the original Christianity of the New Testament has been corrupted by Catholicism but brought back on course by Protestantism, thanks to a messiah figure, Martin Luther.

In this context, we need to bear in mind that there is a very important sense in which 'religion' [2] has been a dirty word for Protestants. It has stood for all those aspects of Catholic Christianity which they rejected at the Reformation: idolatry, superstition, tradition, hierarchy, authoritarianism, mumbo-jumbo, whatever.

Overall, what Dawkins has done is generalise on the Protestant historicism. In his basic scheme, primitive Christianity has been replaced by a primal human state, Catholicism as bad 'religion' has been replaced by religion in general and the Protestant Reformation by the Scientific Revolution, by the discovery of evolution by natural selection in particular. The Protestant Age is of course replaced by the Age of Science and Reason.


From The Protestant Atheism of Richard Dawkins

However there are many questions which Dawkins does not even begin to comprehend. One of them is: why is radical Islam convinced that Western Society is actually satanic in origin, and are therefore prepared to go to such hideous extremes in order to destroy it? Why do they believe they are engaged in a 'cosmic war' of 'good against evil'?

If religious culture is and always been based on a delusion, why is it ubiquitous throughout society, culture and history?

It is very easy, having decided that religion is delusion, to proceed on that basis; as my late father used to say, such questions are always easy for those with black-and-white views.

Radical Islam is a cultural response to muslims, in countries that have large mineral deposits (most notably hydrocarbons) that are useful to the industrially developed (and long since minerally farmed out) West, being repeatedly and brutally taught that their blood is cheaper than ours.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Jun, 2010 05:45 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

So do I dys.
I find it hard to believe you lowered yourself to the point of responding to my post.
0 Replies
 
 

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