respect or free speech?

@ossobuco,

Quote:

"If a group of thugs beat up a kid who opts out, the chances are excellent that they would have found another moronic reason to do so." This from Finn, and if I understand this, I might agree.

Maybe this will help clarify:

My point is that there may have been a time when a kid who opted out of the pledge might have been singled out and isolated or punished by other kids for that reason alone, but no longer.

I don't have any experience with it and I was one of those kids who opted out in High School (graduated 1971), but I can imagine it happened...back then.
I just don't buy that today opting out is so contraversial as to mark a kid as a pariah or target. If a kid, today, opts out and is attacked by bullies, the chances are there are plenty of other stupid reasons why idiotic thugs would beat him up.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

I had heard often enough in post war and then Korean War America

I was wrong, we are not roughly of the same age.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn

Quote:

I get the impression that the people who opted out or are all for the option believe that it is the inevitable choice of any kid that might think for himself.

I don't get that... you've gotten replies here from nihilists, buddhists , atheists, agnostics....all independent minded people.
I think a majority of Americans would remember they said the pledge and thought nothing of it

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Re looking at this post of Finn's, I mostly agree.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I graduated from high school in '59, which makes me an approx dozen years older, with edgar toward my end of the stretch.

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@ossobuco,

I'm always older, which is damned annoying.

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@ossobuco,

Age can bring wisdom and a finer appreciation of life.

I think this is pretty much the case with ossobuco.

Besides, it's better than the alternative.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Age can bring wisdom and a finer appreciation of life.

I think this is pretty much the case with ossobuco.

Besides, it's better than the alternative.

true true

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@panzade,

I can be obnoxious, yes, yes. But, I'm not always.
Carry on.

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@ossobuco,

when I look at life through your eyes osso, I see so many facets.
Thinking good thoughts about your eyes....my exam last week revealed that my eyes are back to 20/20...I've been blessed....and so will you be.

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@ossobuco,

On the other hand, my ex was 11+ years younger and that was never a problem (he was a smartie). So, now, years later, finding that I'm always older than most posters is sort of weird. I'm always glad to see JLN around..

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@ossobuco,

You're speaking to Ms. Avoidance. I will (she says) make the call tomorrow.
Anyway, thanks, and back to free speech...

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@ossobuco,

I have to add to this.. it seems to me a large amount of posters are about eight to twelve years younger than I am, and I pretty much relate to these posters as, ah, normal in my coterie. But.. few are older. It's strange.

1 Reply

Finn wrote:

Of course the oath will not catch spys or subversives but it will reveal people who find loyalty to their country relative or ambiguous.

. . . and, asked for clarification, he wrote:

Quote:

Specifically, someone who will break the law and or violate their oath to leak a story or reveal secrets because their concious tells them too.

And you can tell all that by whether or not someone willingly pledges allegiance to a flag--to a rag hanging on a pole.

Your avatar of a bull elk is very appropriate, because just about all you do around here is peddle bullshit. Now the pledge of allegiance is a sure-fire litmus test of reliable loyalty, huh? Jesus, what a crock.

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Quoting Finn at thrtead beginning:

I think it's much ado about nothing, but have no problem with a child opting out of the pledge if he or she wishes to. Somehow I doubt that the majority of the children who do can support their decision in a reasoned fashion, but I don't think that should be a requirement for opting out.

As far as free speech issues go, this is a tempest in a teapot.

If a child has no respect for this country, rote reciting of the pledge isn't going to make a difference. Better that teachers discuss the issue in class.

Doesn't take long for his true feelings to break through.

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If government rejects their participation,
screwing them out of their natural right to vote,
then is there a REASON that the victims of this shoud SUPPORT the offending government ?

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@edgarblythe,

Finn, There is a fatal flaw in your argument.

You have failed show any link between the pledge of Allegiance and respect for the country.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I have to add to this.. it seems to me a large amount of posters are about eight to twelve years younger than I am, and I pretty much relate to these posters as, ah, normal in my coterie. But.. few are older. It's strange.

I have noticed that year after year,
people seem to be getting younger,
as the floors keep getting lower.

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@ebrown p,

When you go to a Ball Game and they play the National Anthem, do you stand like everyone else does?

If so, is it out of respect for the country?

If not, why not?

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@Yankee,

Yankee wrote:

When you go to a Ball Game and they play the National Anthem, do you stand like everyone else does?

If so, is it out of respect for the country?

If not, why not?

no, I don't , neither do i stand before eating apple pie or riding in a chevrolet.

1 Reply

respect or free speech?

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