Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 07:39 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
"If a group of thugs beat up a kid who opts out, the chances are excellent that they would have found another moronic reason to do so." This from Finn, and if I understand this, I might agree.


Maybe this will help clarify:

My point is that there may have been a time when a kid who opted out of the pledge might have been singled out and isolated or punished by other kids for that reason alone, but no longer.

I don't have any experience with it and I was one of those kids who opted out in High School (graduated 1971), but I can imagine it happened...back then.
I just don't buy that today opting out is so contraversial as to mark a kid as a pariah or target. If a kid, today, opts out and is attacked by bullies, the chances are there are plenty of other stupid reasons why idiotic thugs would beat him up.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 07:40 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I had heard often enough in post war and then Korean War America


I was wrong, we are not roughly of the same age.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 07:59 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn
Quote:
I get the impression that the people who opted out or are all for the option believe that it is the inevitable choice of any kid that might think for himself.


I don't get that... you've gotten replies here from nihilists, buddhists , atheists, agnostics....all independent minded people.
I think a majority of Americans would remember they said the pledge and thought nothing of it
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:04 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Re looking at this post of Finn's, I mostly agree.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I graduated from high school in '59, which makes me an approx dozen years older, with edgar toward my end of the stretch.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:10 pm
@ossobuco,
I'm always older, which is damned annoying.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:14 pm
@ossobuco,
Age can bring wisdom and a finer appreciation of life.

I think this is pretty much the case with ossobuco.

Besides, it's better than the alternative.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:20 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Age can bring wisdom and a finer appreciation of life.

I think this is pretty much the case with ossobuco.

Besides, it's better than the alternative.


true true
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:26 pm
@panzade,
I can be obnoxious, yes, yes. But, I'm not always.
Carry on.
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:31 pm
@ossobuco,
when I look at life through your eyes osso, I see so many facets.
Thinking good thoughts about your eyes....my exam last week revealed that my eyes are back to 20/20...I've been blessed....and so will you be.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:31 pm
@ossobuco,
On the other hand, my ex was 11+ years younger and that was never a problem (he was a smartie). So, now, years later, finding that I'm always older than most posters is sort of weird. I'm always glad to see JLN around..
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:36 pm
@ossobuco,
You're speaking to Ms. Avoidance. I will (she says) make the call tomorrow.
Anyway, thanks, and back to free speech...

ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Jun, 2009 08:41 pm
@ossobuco,
I have to add to this.. it seems to me a large amount of posters are about eight to twelve years younger than I am, and I pretty much relate to these posters as, ah, normal in my coterie. But.. few are older. It's strange.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 04:51 am
Finn wrote:
Of course the oath will not catch spys or subversives but it will reveal people who find loyalty to their country relative or ambiguous.


. . . and, asked for clarification, he wrote:

Quote:
Specifically, someone who will break the law and or violate their oath to leak a story or reveal secrets because their concious tells them too.


And you can tell all that by whether or not someone willingly pledges allegiance to a flag--to a rag hanging on a pole.

Your avatar of a bull elk is very appropriate, because just about all you do around here is peddle bullshit. Now the pledge of allegiance is a sure-fire litmus test of reliable loyalty, huh? Jesus, what a crock.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 05:00 am
Quoting Finn at thrtead beginning:

I think it's much ado about nothing, but have no problem with a child opting out of the pledge if he or she wishes to. Somehow I doubt that the majority of the children who do can support their decision in a reasoned fashion, but I don't think that should be a requirement for opting out.

As far as free speech issues go, this is a tempest in a teapot.

If a child has no respect for this country, rote reciting of the pledge isn't going to make a difference. Better that teachers discuss the issue in class.



Doesn't take long for his true feelings to break through.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 06:41 am

If government rejects their participation,
screwing them out of their natural right to vote,
then is there a REASON that the victims of this shoud SUPPORT the offending government ?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 06:51 am
@edgarblythe,
Finn, There is a fatal flaw in your argument.

You have failed show any link between the pledge of Allegiance and respect for the country.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 06:58 am
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I have to add to this.. it seems to me a large amount of posters are about eight to twelve years younger than I am, and I pretty much relate to these posters as, ah, normal in my coterie. But.. few are older. It's strange.

I have noticed that year after year,
people seem to be getting younger,
as the floors keep getting lower.
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 07:03 am
@ebrown p,
When you go to a Ball Game and they play the National Anthem, do you stand like everyone else does?

If so, is it out of respect for the country?

If not, why not?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 19 Jun, 2009 07:06 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

When you go to a Ball Game and they play the National Anthem, do you stand like everyone else does?

If so, is it out of respect for the country?

If not, why not?
no, I don't , neither do i stand before eating apple pie or riding in a chevrolet.
 

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