respect or free speech?

I sure do. I can reconcile that thinking quite easily.

It is important for our children to understand American history (all of it, good and bad), and understand the concept of Patriotism. Reciting the Pledge reinforces that concept.

Some posters have disparaged America as being a bad place and they would never pledge their allegence to Her Flag. I trust these same folks will teach their children how "bad" America is and ignore all the good we have done throughout the history of this great Nation.

Children have the right to be free of abuse, have shelter, safety and access to quality education.

I do not see how this contradicts the Constitutional rights of minors. I trust you can explain.

Jesus, what bullshit. Little children don't even understand the words. By the time they're old enough to understand the words, they're reciting it by rote, they're bored, they'd rather be some place else, doing something else. It is purely an exercise in stroking the egos of right-wing nut cases who can't get through the day without wrapping themselves in the flag and congratulating themselves on the great good they've done in the world by wiping out the Indians. What a maroon . . .

I see you disagree with me.

That is fine.

I do not suggest you force children to recite. However, I think it should be recited daily, led by the teacher.

Again, I find your insults to be baseless and adolescent.

Do you react that way to everyone who has a different point of view than you?

Are you unwilling to share ideas with others who may think differently?

Are you so cock sure you are always correct that any other thought makes one a moron?

Yankee, let's bypass the Yankee-Setanta flamings that are gonna take up 10 pages of postings

Yankee

Do you think this Pledge should be mandatory?...and how would you handle the kids that refused to say it?

This is a lie.

No one here has disparaged America as being a bad place.

In Low Level grades, yes.

A teacher can sit with the child and ask them to explain why they do not want to participate. They may find out something more about the child that will help the teacher understand the child and it's family and the teachings being made by the Parents. The Teacher, by listening, might be able to explain why the pledge is important, what the words mean and help the child understand.

If the teacher finds out that due to some religious or other valid reason (non citizen), they should accept the reason and not force it upon the child.

Sending the child to the "principals" office, only hurts the child. Children need to understand the WHY'S about the teaching we provide them. It's all part of civics.

I really don't care how you characterize what i post--you may have noticed by now that i entertain a very low opinion of your understanding.

That extends to the rather obvious failure on your part to understand that the recitation of this "pledge" by children who are insufficiently educated to understand what a pledge is and what allegiance means is an exercise in futility. It extends to your apparent inability to understand that there is no good reason to assume that it will instill "patriotism" in children who are obliged to parrot words which are largely meaningless to them. It definitely extends to your failure to understand that there is not a universal agreement on either meaning or the value of what you might believe to be laudatory patriotism.

In case it has slipped above your comprehension, this a venue for people to not simply express their opinions, but to comment on the opinions of others. I consider that the opinions you express lack subtlety and are redolent of the mindless parroting of partisan rhetoric, and i have every right and will not fail to say as much. Just as i expect that you will continue to characterize those who dare to disagree with you as being childish--it seems to be the sole reply you have for the rejection of your ill-considered drivel.

I agree with Dr. Johnson in his statement that patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

Then you must be a crazy person, as you constantly respond.

As such, everything you say or suggest must be discounted as "drivel from a fruitcake".

Thanks for clearing that up.

Good grief.

I got beaten by a neighbour when I refused to stand up for the national anthem (then the British National Anthem) when I was eight...(I was already a republican)....but that was in the sixties for crissake.

That this patriotic **** is mandatory for kids anywhere is rather ante-diluvian, isn't it?

As a child, I never said the pledge. At first, I moved my mouth as if I were speaking, but, after they inserted "under God" I stood with the class but did nothing.

If teachers have any role in this, it should be to explain why the pledge is not important. If a teacher tried this crap on my kids... I would have something to say.

I see no valid reason for loyalty oaths in any circumstance-- certainly not for kids.

((... assuming of course that indoctrination is not the role of teachers))

Yankee, you're rapidly becoming one of the top ten posters of drivel. If you move up just one step you can join my ignore list, A highly regarded honour among the disenfranchised. Do you anything about water-softeners?

If you feel the pledge is not important,, then you should shelter your children and find a school that does not do this. You, the parent, are the decider on what should be taught to your child, not the State.

I am not sure I should care.

Are you another type of person who has zero tolerance for others with a differing point of view?

I find there are many like you on A2K who are unable to argue a point of view without name calling.

look dick-head, I never call any poster a name. I do, sometimes resort of descriptive adjectives.

That's fairly funny if I assume you to be a 10 year old child.

Reminds me of Bevis and Butt Head.

You must be a fan. Which one was your favorite?

I wonder how you feel about sex ed.

I always thought the words were "...one nation in the window sill..." which, of course, made no sense to me at all.

Yes, of course is it is. Your point being . . .?

About the same as anyone else, ebrown.