Michelle single handedly destroys British/American alliance.

@dyslexia,

dys :

i'm happy if just about ANYONE will touch me ! Laughing

hbg

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@snood,

Quote:

I thought we started our own country and fought a war to be free of such royal protocol bullshyt.

That did need to be replayed in caase we have forgotten.

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@dyslexia,

You brought it up, nobody much listens to fyrefox.

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@saab,

saab wrote:

The Queen seemed to take it easy with Michelle´s arm around her.
Just curious about all the advisers no one told her - don´t touch the Queen and personally I don´t think you should hug or put your arm(s) around people who are strangers even if you are invited into their home.
Obama did the same thing to Brown - instead of walking into the dining room first as a guest of honour he put his arm around Brown´s shoulder and pushed Brown into the dining area - as if Obama was the host and Brown the guest.

This gesture has nothing to do with guest/host protocols. By guiding Brown through the door first, Obama is displaying alpha-male dominance.

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@Debra Law,

Quote:

Obama is displaying alpha-male dominance.

As long as no starts peeing on the furniture I think it's fine.

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@Green Witch,

Green Witch wrote:

Quote:
Obama is displaying alpha-male dominance.

As long as no starts peeing on the furniture I think it's fine.

Absolutely. Marking territory with urine is passé.

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Obama, Bush, and alpha male body language

Quote:

Before the 2008 election, the History Channel aired The Secrets of Body Language. It featured clips of world leaders with commentary from body language experts.

One clip blew my mind. In it George W. Bush, Tony Blair, and their wives were having a photo op in front of 10 Downing St. Bush was totally in charge of the whole affair even though he was on Blair’s turf. When Bush felt the photo op had run its course, he nodded to Blair and they walked inside. While walking through the door, Bush placed his hand on Blair’s back and ushered him in. Once Blair crossed the threshold, Bush patted him on the back as if to say “good boy”.

Today the Huffington Post featured an identical video, except this time Obama dominated Bush. Obama had the dominant handshake arm grab, he cued the end of the photo op with a wave, and ushered Bush through the door. Obama didn’t dominate the situation as thoroughly as Bush did with Blair, but it was still obvious that Obama was in charge. The behaviors are so similar that they almost look choreographed.

The Secrets of Body Language isn’t airing anymore, but you can get it on iTunes, DVD, and torrent. I highly recommend it to any student of human behavior.

http://nathanbowers.com/politics/obama-bush-and-alpha-male-body-language/

1 Reply

@Debra Law,

Debra Law wrote:

The Secrets of Body Language isn’t airing anymore, but you can get it on iTunes, DVD, and torrent. I highly recommend it to any student of human behavior.

Is this the one?

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Interesting body language stuff, Debra.

On the Queen and Michelle arm in arm, I found the picture of them from the back to be touching, sweet, even dear, and I'm not any kind of royalty fan.

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@rosborne979,

rosborne979 wrote:

Is this the one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwHydXFcgPg

Yes! I watched it on the History Channel when it aired. It was quite fascinating.

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@ossobuco,

I also thought the picture was endearing. The absence of any sign of "offishness" appeared to indicate the Queen's approval of our new First Lady.

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@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

Setanta wrote:

Or better yet, a wedgie . . .

it's a well known fact that the queen doesn't wear underwear.

dyslexia's sigline wrote:

There is a crack, a crack in everything/ That’s how the light gets in. Leonard Cohen

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Much ado about nothing, I believe. The Queen knows we Americans do not subscribe to the same ceremonial ways as the British, and I would believe likes the warm personality of the President's wife. Let us remember that the Queen is a woman, who as a teenager, closed her evening radio broadcast to the nation's children with a wish that they sleep well, even though their country was being bombarded. The Queen, I would believe, values genuine warmth, even though her own culture is not known for such warmth. In effect, we Americans can sometimes be the teacher, rather than the student, in social mores.

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@Debra Law,

Regarding body language you are right regarding the alpha male gesture.
So it was wrong of Obama to take the leading role in somebody elses house.

The need of having to touch others all the time can have two meanings - the one you mentioned and being a sign of nervousness.

1 Reply

@saab,

Saab said:

Quote:

The need of having to touch others all the time can have two meanings - the one you mentioned and being a sign of nervousness.

In Michelle Obama's case I doubt it has anything to do with nervousness or a need to display an alpha personality.
Given her age and the age of the queen - it may have been an instinctively protective, guiding touch, such as one she'd give her mother as they were walking together.
I find myself holding my mother's hand or arm all the time now as we walk together, whereas even ten years ago, it wouldn't have naturally occurred nearly as often.

Also, Michelle Obama is so much taller than the queen, she probably needed to stand close and bend down to hear what was being said to her - and again, it's instinctive to touch as you stand nearer someone smaller - - standing within someone's personal space without a point of contact seems very uncomfortable for me - if all you can sense or concentrate on is his or her face very, very close to your own. That would seem more unnatural and uncomfortable to me for sure.

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@Foofie,

I think we all subscribe to some sort of ceremonials. What we in daily life call well behaving. We say thank you, we open doors, we don´t smoke, we use knife and fork and don´t eat with our fingers etc etc
On international level there has to be a protocol as people from all over the world get together and have different rules about how to behave. Don´t serve pork to Muslims, don´t touch a Japanese and many other things.
The Queen often has to shake hands with hundreds of people in a long row - the protocol says don´t touch her. It is tiring enough to shake hands with maybe hundred people and then having to be hugged by them would be too much. One smells of after shave the next has too much perfume on, the third one smoked a cigar the fourth one smells of garlic......poor woman.
The picture of those two looks cute and the Queen´s reaction was natural, but does this really mean you Americans did teach us Europeans something?
All is showed was that The First Lady brooke the rules of behaviour on the diplomatic carpets. We all fall for it and think it is oh so cute.......
If you were to meet a famous respected person in USA twice your age would you just hug that person or put your arm around him/her? I doubt it.

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@aidan,

I have never experienced that it is a instinct to touch someone standing nearer you when they are smaller.
I don´t touch children or teen agers smaller than I. Boys would hate it. Nor do I ever touch a woman smaller than I. Nor do men touch me because I am smaller than they are. I even find it strange if people touch would touch me in a situation like that .- as if they would put me in my place.
Michelle certainly did not have to feel protective towards the Queen - she can take care of herself.

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What might be left out of this thread is the fact that the U.S.A. and Britain have a very special relationship that makes the U.S.A. , in my opinion, like an unofficial Commonwealth country. And Britain an unofficial homeland (aka, mother England) for a good percentage of the U.S.A.'s citizens. Assuming that might have some degree of veracity, I do not believe we should judge the Queen and Michelle Obama by any other standards than the U.S.A. and Britain are very much like family to each other. In that context, touching was most appropriate. The message, in my mind, was an affirmation of the concern for each other's country, that transcends national identities.

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@Foofie,

Forget Michelle Obama and the Queen for a moment.
As a guest in someone´s house you behave according to the rules in that house,
as a younger person you don´t start changing rules. The older person is the one who can suggest to change them. That is commom sence and good behavior. This was not done in the case of the two above mentioned ladies.

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@saab,

That might be so. But all who all persons relevant liked it, including the British public and media.

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Michelle single handedly destroys British/American alliance.

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