When someone says "native American" do they mean Mexican? or Hawaiian?

These thoughts of yours might have a corollary with the term "native New Yorker" in that those born in New York might not always consider the transplant from another state to ever be a "true" New Yorker, no matter how adept at riding the subway one becomes, or aware of how the streets run in many neighborhoods. It is said with pride oftentimes (native New Yorker) and the "transplant" will not use it. However, after some period of adjusting to the lifestyle in NYC, a "transplant" might call oneself a "New Yorker."

Well, compared to folks back home that would get lost on the subway, or not know which neighborhoods require a degree of street smarts, the "transplant" is a New Yorker; however, they would not usurp, I believe, the term "native New Yorker" that only those born in New York use (often with pride).

So, getting back to Native Americans and those of European descent, there should be no problem with Native Americans being Native Americans, and Americans of European descent being just Americans? If anyone wants those Americans of European descent to go back to Europe, well those folks have a long wait.

I see a certain similarity here to the problem in Israel and Gaza?

Uh, this whole thread weirds me out.

Here in New Mexico, the non-Hispanic caucasians are generally referred to as Anglo regardless of their actual origin, those of traceable Spanish heritage frequently refer to themselves as Spanish or Hispanic, those of Mexican or Puerto Rican or South American et al heritage generally refer to themselves as Hispanic, those of Asian descent are generally Asian, those who consider themselves black are mostly black but sometimes still African Americans, and those who can claim to be Apache or Comanche or Navajo or Hopi or any of the Pueblo tribes, etc. are Native Americans. Not too much a war of terms or semantics here at least these days.

Oh, look, I got a zero, wonder what that's about. Someone who doesn't want Boomer dissed - but I wasn't dissing Boom.

I'm not sure I can articulate my comments just yet. My life re all this has been a learning, and enjoying learning, thing, but I also mess up. The more I learn, the more I don't know.

Suggest to a native Hawaiian that they are native american you will get the stink eye. The Hawaiians would love it if them damn theiving mericans would leave and give back their land that was stolen.

Suggest to a native Hawaiian that they are native american you will get the stink eye. The Hawaiians would love it if them damn theiving mericans would leave and give back their land that was stolen.
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LOL roughly 48 hours after we gave their lands back to them the Japaness would had landed and then welcome them into their empire.

Somehow given the history of the Japaness in that time period concerning the treatment of other people they had control over I would predict the islanders would not had been happy.

Hawaii not having the ability to defend itself was going to belong to one world power or another and everything consider they was lucky it was us.

Interesting that all northern Europeans have become Anglos, all right.

You know it is sad that history real history is not taugh instead of PC nonsense.

There happen to had been naval forces off the Hawaii island of the Japan empire when we took the Hawaii islands over and they stongly protected our doing so.

Only the US kept the Japaness at bay when it came to the Hawaii islands.

Dude, you are a ******* idiot...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VqoxOcEqpk&feature=related

(sorry Boom)

Yes, I know the Indians were poor and pure of heart victims of evil white men.

North America was a paradise before the evil white men show up but those nice pictures of Indians on horses in your pointless Youtube video was only possible because the evil white men introduce the horses in the first place.

Lord is this silliness never ending?

I am rather certain that the Spanish brought the horses...

were they white?

(and u-tube stems from Satan, let's not bring him into this, no?)

Yes my very silly friend they was white..............

and I am silly why?

because I think you get your history from Hollywood?

How is lying and breaking agreements any less wrong then than now?

(I know, Gold in the Black Hills is an unforeseen National Emergency...)

damned savages anyway.

I get my history, at least in part, from Carey McWilliams.

Island on the Land, one the books of my life -

Back when I nab a link.

OK, yadda yadda, but a link -

http://www.amazon.com/Southern-California-Island-Carey-McWilliams/dp/0879050071

I don't really care about the link but I do about the book.

My own copy, a paper back.. remained good, but I gave it to someone.

I am the one getting my history from Hollywood instead of Youtube perhaps like you do.

I remember the great movies about the lost colony of Virginia or the French Indian wars or how the British used Indians allies in both the revolution and the War of 1812<not>. Hell there was Indians forces fighting on the side of the South during the civil war.

Yes my friend they was poor victims and not players in the game of who will end up controlling this land and a military threat for hundred of years after white men arrived here.

In fact, the British did use Indian allies in both the American Revolution, and the American War, as they call it, or the War of 1812, as we call it.

Well, it wasn't the Indians who cut down the old growth forest to make things like extra soft toilet paper, or dump pollution into the streams, rivers and lakes, or build Walmarts' on top of numerous biodiverse meadows and wetlands. Who wiped out the Buffalo herds? Who turned Iowa into a giant monoculture of corn grown on toxic chemicals? Who made Lake Erie into a dead zone? The Indians lived a very sustainable existence. They might have been happy to raid each other, but at least they could leave the beauty and abundance of this country in tact for thousands of years without the need to destroy it for profit.
Yes, it was a paradise of nature before the white people and their (still) insatiable greed became the norm. All we have now is a few national parks to remind us of what this country looked like before the Europeans and their values came to rule. Maybe we could have learned something from the "savages" of this land.

You ignore the undeniable fact that the arrival of humans in the Americas spelled the doom of "mega-fauna," just as it did everywhere else in the world where humans showed up. You ignore the substantial change which the population growth of Amerindians worked on their environment. The "old growth" forests of which you speak were actually not so old. Before diseases brought by Europeans spread to the Amerindians and drastically reduced their numbers, their practice of swidden farming (also known as slash and burn) meant that most of the North American continent east of the Mississippi and south of the St. Laurent was what is called sylvan park land--the regular burning off of underbrush meant that only a very few trees survived to reach full growth, and the land was a great deal more "open" than it was before the Amerindians arrived. The dense forests which white folks encountered when they crossed the Appalachian range and entered the Ohio and Tennessee valleys only grew up in the roughly two centuries before their arrival. Prior to first contact, those dense forests did not exist.

Much of what you refer to is a part of the contemporary political myth of the noble savage living in a ecological harmony with their environment. The remark about some raiding is laughable when one considers what the Iroquois Confederacy, alone, did to their Amerindian neighbors and farther afield in the 17th century. They slaughtered about 70% of the Hurons, wiped out the "Cat People" (we only know they once existed because of Jesuit records--they were gone before French priests could contact them to learn of their language and culture), slaughtered tens of thousands of Potawatomi, Outagamie, Ottawa and Illinois (Illiniwek), including wiping out the Tamaroa sept of the Illinois completely.

I'm not whitewashing what Europeans did, but i'm not ready to condemn it out of hand, either. It is complete historical horseshit to make the Amerindians into some kind of hapless victim and the white folks as eternally evil practitioners of genocide.

Well Green Witch please feel free to join a hunter gather society there still are some in the world.

Please also feel free to enjoy a life span of thirty years at the very best and to watch your children die of all kind of diseases and your daughers die in child birth.

Please feel free never to read a book and to be subject to the whims of the leaders of the tribe.

Small foot-note there are now far more trees and woods then in the 14 hundreds as we had been unwisley stopping forest fires.

Yes we could learn from the native people how to live a short and ugly life.