Should persons accused of child sex abuse be presumed guilty?

@rydinearth,

Nope there is no way I would "agree that the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

There are innumerable crimes that are far worse. I would argue that actions leading to the substantive decrease in Man's potential for future survival would be among them.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Kirkus Reviews . . . i laughed so hard i almost choked . . . Kirkus Reviews is in the business of writing favorable reviews for book jackets. Kirkus Reviews never met a book it didn't like, nor one with which it disagreed. It is entirely possible that Kirkus Reviews has reviewed a book with an opposing point of view, and Kirkus agreed with that one, too.

Krikus Review's opinion of the work is not relevant, what is is the nature of the work. Unless you can substantiate a claim the Kirkus misrepresents the nature of the what they review you have no valid point. You can agree with the authors of the book, or not, my point is that there is a book out that makes the claims re sex abuse as Kirkus Reviews claims that it does. Amazon clearly thinks that Kirkus is good enoung to provide valid outlines of books, absent evidence from you that Kirkus is not I will take their word over yours.

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@Chumly,

Quote:

Nope there is no way I would "agree that the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

There are innumerable crimes that are far worse. I would argue that actions leading to the substantive decrease in Man's potential for future survival would be among them.

Any abuse or sexual molestation of children most certainly leads to a substantve decrease in Man's potential for future survival, or at least optimum survival, in that these children are damaged, to the point of being unable to function appropriately, and in some cases become abusers themselves, inflicting this damage on the next generation, and the next generation...etc.

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@Chumly,

Quote:

Nope there is no way I would "agree that the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

There are innumerable crimes that are far worse. I would argue that actions leading to the substantive decrease in Man's potential for future survival would be among them.

Sexual trespass of a child can damage that individual for life, however:
1) the crime is punished irregardless of any indications of damage
2) the damage if it takes place is able to be mitigated through psychiatric care
3) almost everyone who ends up in the criminal system (outside of those who run afoul of the misguided sex and drug laws) are accused of doing damage to others. There are a lot of crimes that damage a huge number of people (Madoff anyone?), or that greatly damage one or a few (murder, employer misconduct), the damage from childhood sexual trespass is relative and is quantifiable. It is difficult (but maybe not impossible) to justify the current level of pursuit of abusers on damage claims alone

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Sorry kids but.............

Societal conventions plus religious conventions plus power in the form of economic, military, constabulary, legal, political............are major influences on so-called "morality" not some inherent sense of right and wrong as it relates to sex crimes or the lack thereof.

The destruction of amphibian habitat however is direct and to the point as per a harbinger re: Man's survival.

The short term effects as per a human "individual" pale in comparison.

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@Chumly,

Interestingly enough, it would seem to me that most societal conventions are derived at from an agreed upon inherent sense of what is right and wrong. within that specific society.

How do you think societal conventions are arrived at or influenced?

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@Chumly,

Quote:

The destruction of amphibian habitat however is direct and to the point as per a harbinger re: Man's survival.

And the destruction of a human child is just as much a direct and to the point inhibitor of Man's ultmate survival.

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@aidan,

Rhetorical drivel and pure make believe that Man's longer term, consequential actions are based on some sort of consensus.

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@aidan,

Nonsensical pap, the destruction of the amphibian habitat is a dangerous harbinger far greater in terms of Man's survival than your aforementioned morally relative sex crime.

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@Chumly,

Speaking of nonsense, you're talking apples and oranges, first of all. Secondly, most citizens of western and/or industrialized nations should be in prison for contributing to the detriment of the ecosystem in one way or another, under your definition of what constitutes a heinous crime.

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@aidan,

40 million men, women and children perish annually from hunger, starvation, disease and malnutrition. Out of the roughly 100,000-150,000 dying every day around the world, roughly 40,000 of these are children.

Why don't your precious "societal conventions" function as you claim?

What total gibberish that "most citizens of western and/or industrialized nations should be in prison for contributing to the detriment of the ecosystem in one way or another, under your definition of what constitutes a heinous crime." It's not the contribution per se, it's the consequence on a net basis.

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@aidan,

And nope it's not so-called "apples and oranges".

I counter the claim that "the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" I argue that it's not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

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@Chumly,

What are you talking about- MY precious concensus?

Are you not in agreement that child rape should be illegal?

Quote:

40 million men, women and children perish annually from hunger, starvation, disease and malnutrition. Out of the roughly 100,000-150,000 dying every day around the world, roughly 40,000 of these are children.

Why don't your precious "societal conventions" function as you claim?

Again, you're talking apples and oranges.
And why don't you address your own scenario? If it's a heinous crime to negatively impact the ecosystem - would you imprison yourself? Do you own and drive a car? Do you heat a house? Do you eat meat?

Talk about hypocritical....

And I bet if you had a child who'd been molested - or even had a child who ran the risk of being molested simply because that child was a child...you'd think differently about how heinous a crime it is.

Lack of ******* empathy is the crime that enables us all to turn the other way while :

Quote:

40 million men, women and children perish annually from hunger, starvation, disease and malnutrition. Out of the roughly 100,000-150,000 dying every day around the world, roughly 40,000 of these are children.

and my 'precious 'societal conventions' don't function as I claim because of people like you who can't ******* empathize and would rather turn the other way when children are damaged and abused - but you'll scream your ******* head off when a frog loses its home.

Jesus!

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@aidan,

Your strawman "Are you not in agreement that child rape should be illegal?"

I counter the claim that "the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" I argue that it's not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

The fact that you do not understand that amphibian habitat can be used as a yardstick for Man's survival potential shows your inherent ignorance.

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@Chumly,

You know what chumly - you take care of the frogs - I'll take care of the kids - okay? I think that'll work out better for everyone concerned.

Still driving that car? Watch out - you might run over a frog....

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@aidan,

Again the fact that you do not understand that amphibian habitat can be used as a yardstick for Man's survival potential shows your inherent ignorance.

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@Chumly,

I'd hazard to guess that I care just as much for the environment as you do.. I just also care about children - in fact that's why I DO care about the environment...hello?

there's a major difference in creating a safe environment and guarding against physical and emotional and sexual abuse for a child.

some people care about doing both.

Address your own ignorance.

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@aidan,

Again...........I counter the claim that "the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" I argue that it's not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

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@Chumly,

As I said - you concentrate on amphibians then.

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@aidan,

Another straw man response.

Again I counter the claim that "the sexual abuse of a child is one of the most heinous crimes imaginable" I argue that it's not even close to "one of the most heinous crimes imaginable".

Again the fact that you do not understand that amphibian habitat can be used as a yardstick for Man's survival potential shows your inherent ignorance.

You are unable to respond on point, this deficiency is of your making.

2 Replies

Should persons accused of child sex abuse be presumed guilty?

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