32
   

Does anyone else eschew credit?

 
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 01:15 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

panzade wrote:

one of the factors that caused Floridians to get into so much debt was the over valuing of property and the ease with which they could re finance and secure second mortgages...when a home was re financed, the credit cards were paid off and the whole process started again
I think Florida has more upside down mortgages than any state, except perhaps, California


By some estimates, the average American household has over $9,300 in credit card debt.

from: http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/CreditCardSmarts/TheBigLieAboutCreditCardDebt.aspx

It's not just Florida.


Nope. Americans have been abusing credit, badly, for a long time now. This is one of the major reasons I tend to discount the 'it works for me' stories that I hear about credit; it quite obviously does not work for most, and the industry is really parasitical in nature and should be heavily reformed.

Cycloptichorn

I couldn't agree with you more. It's an absolute scandal that Congress has permitted the credit card companies to do what they've done. Many credit card companies have the clear intention of luring people into lifetime slavery, and employ tactics such as giving people a very low interest rate and then jacking it up near to 30% for utterly invalid reasons, such as "unspecified bad credit." I read about one person to whom exactly that happened. When he sued the card company demanding to know what "bad credit" they were referring to, they dropped his rate back down with no explanation.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 01:18 pm
@Brandon9000,
I'm glad we've found a topic on which we can be in complete agreement!

Cycloptichorn
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jun, 2009 05:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

I'm glad we've found a topic on which we can be in complete agreement!

Cycloptichorn

I was thinking that too. I'm sure there are some areas of agreement, but, of course, there are very deep differences too.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 12:07 pm
Credit card company tries to induce late customer payments:

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2009/07/when-james-received-a-great-credit-card-offer-two-years-ago-a-499-percent-interest-on-balance-transfers-for-the-life-of.html#posts
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 04:05 pm
@Brandon9000,
Or they are trying to make customers who have extremly low rates, pay off those balances faster.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 04:20 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

sorry, but I use credit and do nothing but benefit from it.

I buy as many items as I can with my credit card that's designated for regular use, even an item that costs a dollar or two.

In 3 years I've been using a card that earns points I have not bought anything I would not have bought if I had the cash, I pay it off each month and have gotten more than $1000 worth of gas cards and debit gift cards. I use it to take advantage of timing purchases to get the most for my money, I'm sure saving a at least another thousand dollars. Besides the purchases I would have made anyway with cash, I love it when I can charge a business expense on my personal card, getting reimbursed electronically within 1 or 2 business days, and being able to earn the points.

That's a tax free investment with no risk. Why shouldn't I take advantage of earning $700 a year from it?

Obviously there's not many people like me. But I'm proof credit is not always a bad thing.

Your points r superbly well taken



David
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 08:35 pm
@Brandon9000,

When you triple peoples' monthly payments, it is a predictable result that many will soon default. This is incredibly obvious. I'm sure that's exactly what they're counting on so that they can also raise the interest rates.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 08:46 pm
@Brandon9000,
Maybe, but can you blame them?

Congress just passed a pretty huge change in laws for the CC companies. You have to expect them to over-react since the future of their business model is unknown. That coupled with the economic forecast and record levels of charge-offs that are hitting their bottom lines, this is EXACTLY what people, including the credit card executives, said they would have to do to maintain profitibility.

You bitch and bitch about credit card practices, and then you go and make it worse with a series of extreme laws all happening at the same time. It would have been less impactful if certain laws were staggered, but no, congress said "everything takes effect in February, DEAL WITH IT"....well, they're dealing with it.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 09:41 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

Maybe, but can you blame them?

Congress just passed a pretty huge change in laws for the CC companies. You have to expect them to over-react since the future of their business model is unknown. That coupled with the economic forecast and record levels of charge-offs that are hitting their bottom lines, this is EXACTLY what people, including the credit card executives, said they would have to do to maintain profitibility.

You bitch and bitch about credit card practices, and then you go and make it worse with a series of extreme laws all happening at the same time. It would have been less impactful if certain laws were staggered, but no, congress said "everything takes effect in February, DEAL WITH IT"....well, they're dealing with it.

The problem with your logic is that actually congress passed very, very mild restraints to curb awful abuses, such as suddenly raising someone's interest rate from 8% to 25% in an effort to reduce him to a life of economic slavery, and a credit card company has responded with a practice that can only be described as an effort to trick people into defaulting so that, once again, they can reduce them to a life of economic slavery. Suddenly trippling someone's interest rate, particularly for trivial issues is immoral, and suddenly tripling someone's minimum payment in an effort to force him to default so that you can make him into a slave is immoral. You're trying to justify the acts of people who are barely one step above criminals. Disagree? Okay, then name me one provision of the new law that's unreasonable.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Jul, 2009 10:30 pm
@Brandon9000,
They are all all reasonable, but when you hack away at 5-7 different, major, profit generators ALL AT THE SAME TIME, you have to expect the credit card companies to over react to ensure they maintain a profit. Scratch that, it is THE LAW that publicly traded companies act with the shareholders interests first and foremost, and that means profit.

What I would have preferred congress to do is say, regulation #1 will go into effect in August, #2 in December, #3 in March, etc. Give the companies time to adjust to the new regulations, and you could have avoided all of this.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:01 am
@maporsche,

Did u pay cash for your Porsche ?
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:06 am
@OmSigDAVID,
hahahahahaha.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jul, 2009 06:18 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

They are all all reasonable, but when you hack away at 5-7 different, major, profit generators ALL AT THE SAME TIME, you have to expect the credit card companies to over react to ensure they maintain a profit. Scratch that, it is THE LAW that publicly traded companies act with the shareholders interests first and foremost, and that means profit.

What I would have preferred congress to do is say, regulation #1 will go into effect in August, #2 in December, #3 in March, etc. Give the companies time to adjust to the new regulations, and you could have avoided all of this.

Maybe we should tell the bank robbers, okay, next week, you will rob half as many banks, the week after, we'll get you down to a quarter. The abuses were despicable, and by, instead of starting to behave, merely thinking up a new way to deceive people into making a mistake, Chase has shown its true nature. People who would do these things to other people, people who feed off the misery of others, deserve no consideration whatsoever.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 02:08 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I don't currently have a Porsche.

But, yes I will be paying cash for it when I do get one. I stopped drinking almost 3 years ago, and began pocketing $70/week into a savings account for my Porsche. In December it will have been 3 years, and by that point I should have almost 11k in my savings account which I will use to buy a mid 80's Porsche 911.

What was your point?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 04:08 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

I don't currently have a Porsche.

But, yes I will be paying cash for it when I do get one.
I stopped drinking almost 3 years ago, and began pocketing $70/week
into a savings account for my Porsche. In December it will have
been 3 years, and by that point I should have almost 11k in my
savings account which I will use to buy a mid 80's Porsche 911.

What was your point?

It was really a little joke, based on a play on words.

I hope that u will forgive me for stating the obvious
that drinking is inconsistent with enjoying the delights of your Porsche.
In the 1970s, I had a legal secretary named Lucille who bought a brand new Oldsmobile Cutlass,
which she almost immediately wrecked on her way home from partying, but she was fully insured
and got a brand new replacement, which she then almost immediately (not even a week) totaled out again
after the same event. Anyway


How did u choose a Porsche ?
Which of its attributes most commended themselves to your attention ?

0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 06:49 am
@Brandon9000,
My only point Brandon was that the actions that the credit card companies are taking NOW, the very one's you seems to be 'shocked' at, are happening because of the legislation that was passed and that most of America supports.

Personally, I support most of those initiatives as well, but I also believe that by making all the changes at once, you've backed the credit card companies into a corner and they are going to do EVEN MORE questionable activities (raising rates, lowering limits, increasing fees, etc) to almost all of their customers BECAUSE of the law changes.

Congress just made the problem WORSE (in the short term). And their timing couldn't have been much worse either.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 08:01 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

My only point Brandon was that the actions that the credit card companies are taking NOW, the very one's you seems to be 'shocked' at, are happening because of the legislation that was passed and that most of America supports.

Personally, I support most of those initiatives as well, but I also believe that by making all the changes at once, you've backed the credit card companies into a corner and they are going to do EVEN MORE questionable activities (raising rates, lowering limits, increasing fees, etc) to almost all of their customers BECAUSE of the law changes.

Congress just made the problem WORSE (in the short term). And their timing couldn't have been much worse either.

Stopping immoral people from tricking millions of citizens into being their slaves is something that is just plain good. If the monsters who were doing it were inconvenienced, I can only be happy that they are getting back some small part of the misery they, themselves inflict on others with such indifference.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 11:33 am
@Brandon9000,
They (the immoral people) aren't being inconvenienced, the people who are getting they're rates raised (the VERY people this bill is supposed to protect), the limits lowered, and their min pays raised are the ones who are being hurt here.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 12:28 pm
@maporsche,
The unintended consequences of this bill is what is biting people in the ass right now. It's like Congress didn't believe the CC executives when they said that based on their current business models, if you enact these rules, we'll have to penalize our existing customers MORE to maintain profitibility.

Were they trying to call their bluff?

The CC companies have 7 more months to jack the rates up on everyone else, and bring easy credit to and end.

That should do wonders for the economy.







I'll add that I personally think that credit is a horrible invention and I think the entire credit industry should fail and people should go back to only buying things they can afford and being forced to save for what they want.

But for people to ACT surprised that companies are doing what they can to make a profit in the face of changing and the most extensive regulatory change in decades, and in the midst of record charge-offs and delinquencies, and rising unemployment, etc, well you have to be STUPID to be surprised (especially since everyone who knew anything about this told you this from day one, before the laws were signed).
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jul, 2009 02:28 pm
It's not a question of doing what they can to maintain profitability, it's a question of doing absolutely evil things to maintain profitability, such as offering people cards with attractive terms, and then suddenly tripling the minimum payment, even for those who have paid on time, in a transparent effort to force people to miss a payment. Evil is evil, and should be treated as such. Many of the credit card companies seem to actually plot to maneuver their customers into a lifetime of slavery to them. They're not being regulated too much, but far too little.
 

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