My father claims......

I don't agree with that.
This is a big subject, and it has roots going back to the birth of the nation:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9186

I have decided that organised religion, of whatever stripe, is a bad thing, being exclusive and ultimately divisive.

McT

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Yeah, but are you a christian. It seems thats that is what they think. I see no evidence of this. Its more like they adopted their ideas from what was before them. Problem is that christians think that christians are the beginning, and all originates from them. Come on you of faith show me the errors in my judgement.

Speak Free

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bongstar420 wrote:

Yeah, but are you a christian. It seems thats that is what they think. I see no evidence of this. Its more like they adopted their ideas from what was before them. Problem is that christians think that christians are the beginning, and all originates from them.]

I won't comment too much on that, and don't disagree with it too much.
As an aside, it seems to me that fundamentalist Christianity and Creationism and all of that, is one of the biggest problems facing western societies today.

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McTag wrote:

bongstar420 wrote:
Yeah, but are you a christian. It seems thats that is what they think. I see no evidence of this. Its more like they adopted their ideas from what was before them. Problem is that christians think that christians are the beginning, and all originates from them.]

I won't comment too much on that, and don't disagree with it too much.
As an aside, it seems to me that fundamentalist Christianity and Creationism and all of that, is one of the biggest problems facing western societies today.

Amen

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bongstar420 wrote:

Yeah, but are you a christian. It seems thats that is what they think. I see no evidence of this. Its more like they adopted their ideas from what was before them. Problem is that christians think that christians are the beginning, and all originates from them. Come on you of faith show me the errors in my judgement.

It may be what some Christians think but it certianly isn't representative of the whole or even the majority.

Ask your father if he thinks all of the items listed in the 10 Commandments are moral and "good". If he's been paying attention to his bible he'd realize that Christianity didn't exist in the Old Testament.

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So were there no good people before Christ?

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Bongstar... I think that trying to understand how people like your father come up with the conclusion that "all things good came from Christianity" work is a key to opening their minds. There are many reasons that people believe that way -- fear and a lack of education being (IMHO) two of the most common reasons. Like, if anyone actually studied society before Christianity arrived on the scene, they would know that there were laws and punishments in place for instances of killing, adultery, etc etc (depending on what was deemed to be wrong in a particular society) long before the time of Jesus.

The fear is a by-product of the lack of education...fear of going to hell for not believing a certain way or living a certain way. And that's not to say that your father is stupid...and maybe even has an education...but obviously not in the area of societal morals and laws and behavior and religion etc.

There's a theory that Jesus studied Buddhism...which I'm sure can never be proven, but the teachings of Jesus and Buddha are quite similar, which leads one to believe that there may be some connection.

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It may be what some Christians think but it certianly isn't representative of the whole or even the majority.

Oh thats for sure, everyone is differant right and we can all agree on that!

Ask your father if he thinks all of the items listed in the 10 Commandments are moral and "good". If he's been paying attention to his bible he'd realize that Christianity didn't exist in the Old Testament.[/quote]

I did, He said that if it agrees with the new testiment, then that is what is right. But he does not think that that is contradictory in its self. To me it looks like god changed his mind. Whats up with that, such a perfect being(I certainly wouldnt give god man like qualities in any way) wouldnt need to change their mind because they would have countered it to begin with.

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LibertyD wrote:

Bongstar... I think that trying to understand how people like your father come up with the conclusion that "all things good came from Christianity" work is a key to opening their minds. There are many reasons that people believe that way -- fear and a lack of education being (IMHO) two of the most common reasons. Like, if anyone actually studied society before Christianity arrived on the scene, they would know that there were laws and punishments in place for instances of killing, adultery, etc etc (depending on what was deemed to be wrong in a particular society) long before the time of Jesus.

The fear is a by-product of the lack of education...fear of going to hell for not believing a certain way or living a certain way. And that's not to say that your father is stupid...and maybe even has an education...but obviously not in the area of societal morals and laws and behavior and religion etc.

There's a theory that Jesus studied Buddhism...which I'm sure can never be proven, but the teachings of Jesus and Buddha are quite similar, which leads one to believe that there may be some connection.

Thats what I say, but nothing comes of but name calling. He says that his faith is not out of fear, and I say that im not going to submit to fear. If its right Ill see that in due time, wouldnt I. What I dislike the most is the references to my blindness, rebellion, lack of moral, delusions, and so on. I feel that such references does nothing but show ones own weakness in faith. I never ounce have told any one any such things, but something like "thats pretty far out, but good for you." Hell Ive got some far out ideas myself. Is that so rong?

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bongstar420 wrote:

I did, He said that if it agrees with the new testiment, then that is what is right. But he does not think that that is contradictory in its self.

How is it not contridictory? The 10 Commandments and the Old Testamant all pre-date Christianity, if they are "good" and/or "moral" then how could they have come from Christianity (the original supposition here)???

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Your father needs a lesson in reality. The morals that he attributes to christianity come directly from the old testament. The Torah. Judaism in reality is the mother of Christianity.

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I try to give him lessons every day. All I get is how wrong I am. I say that such religious ideas are nothing more than a matter of perception. I try to tell him that someone cannot be wrong for seeing things differant than someone else. And he says that there is only one way, and it matters not that you dont see it that way. Oh well, I guess that Ill burn in hell for eternity. Which by the way is supposed to be incomrehensible. Seems pretty much self exlplanitory to me.

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My father claims......

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