17
   

Not a single Republican vote. Heard that before.

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

It is obviously that Foxfyre...and the other conservatives...think there is not enough to go around.

To their way of thinking...if 5 individuals were enterprising enough and smart enough to control 95% of all the wealth in the United States...they should be able to do so.




Don't look now Frank, but THIS is a straw man.
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:36 pm
@maporsche,
I'm clueless as to where that rant came from. I didn't say I didn't care.

What I'm saying is that after 8 years of republicans spending like crack whores on NOTHING BUT themselves and putting more money in the pockets of the already grossly rich, they suddenly want us to hear them cry about the kids and grandkids.

I'll hear nothing of it.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:36 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

It is obviously that Foxfyre...and the other conservatives...think there is not enough to go around.

To their way of thinking...if 5 individuals were enterprising enough and smart enough to control 95% of all the wealth in the United States...they should be able to do so.




Don't look now Frank, but THIS is a straw man.


Why?

What would be your justification for taking their legally, ethically earned money away from them?

What if it was 1% of the people who owned 50% of the money? How would you justify taking their legally, ethically earned money away?

Cyclopichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:41 pm
the words STIMULUS PLAN (used in both the U.S. and canada) is a misnomer imo .
a more appropriate description might be " DISASTER PREVENTION PLAN " - because the situation in the U.S. and canada is close to a disaster .
that name however does not have an otimistic ring to it .
hbg
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 05:43 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

I think Galbraith is a bleeding heart liberal without a clue what a true economic stimulus is.

Good economic stimulus would be:
1. Re-regulate the banks to require sound lending practices so that they are not required or allowed to lend to people with little chance of being able to repay the loans. That would free up credit and control inflation as nothing else is likely to do.
2. Lower capital gains taxes or at least make the current ones permanent so that business can invest and expand without fear of the tax consequences.
3. Lower business taxes to free up money for business to expand and grow and create jobs.
4. Lower personal taxes so that people have more money to pump back into the economy in a way that will increase the national treasury instead of add to the national debt.
5. Remove as much wage supports and regulation as is reasonable, without compromising the national safety and security, to increase business profits and ability to produce what the market wants instead of what the government thinks the people should have.
6. Allow infrastructure to follow economic growth as is necessary to sustain it instead of thinking economic growth will follow government-initiated infrastructure.
7. Trust the people to be innovative, inventive, creative, and practical to move society forward as it has always done, and get government out of the way as much as possible.

We cannot spend ourselves into prosperity by providing and doing for others what they are capable of doing for themselves.


Laughing

Fox's recommendation: do everything Bush would have done!

Lower taxes on the rich!
Lower cap gains taxes!
Lower business taxes!
Remove Regulations!
Remove the minimum wage!
Trust in people to Innovate!
Don't spend money on Infrastructure!

In short, let's fix the country by wrecking the f*cking place!

Jesus christ on a crutch

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 08:16 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Any of us with a 401K or IRA or who inherited a small portfolio from Uncle Ed or who own any kind of property apart from our primary residence or who run any kind of business all benefit from lower capital gains. Raise capital gains taxes, you will of course for the short term increase revenues to the national treasury for the government to spend or give away for whatever, but you also hurt small business, mom and pop operations, make it more difficult to invest venture capital or expand the business or hire more people.

Sometimes you are really clueless Fox.

401K are NOT taxed as capital gains. They are taxed as ordinary income.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/401(k)#Tax_consequences
Regular IRAs withdrawals are also taxed as ordinary income and not capital gains.
Inheritance is NOT taxed as capital gains. In fact you get a great deal on inheriting a portfolio. It's cost basis is what it is on the day you receive it.

Yes, property is a capital gain but it is taxed at a reduced rate already since most property is held more than a year.

The only way to realize a capital gain as a business is to sell assets. The majority of small business in normal day to day operations has no tax liability from capital gains so would get no tax cut.

Your argument about people benefiting from capital gains is nonsense Fox.

Quote:
There's all sorts of ways to look at it.
Yeah, you just proved that by showing us the wrong way to look at it.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Thu 29 Jan, 2009 08:47 pm
Really enjoying the give and take on all this. Wonderful posts by Nimh, (loved seeing his blog).
Liked seeing that all the hard-boiled GOP talking points (lower the Capital Gains tax! Free the top 1%) are still out being floated around even though they haven't a prayer of seeing daylight.

Maporsche:
Quote:
People under 30 UNITE!
Um, we geezerheads over sixty invented the phrase "Don't trust anyone over thirty." It was a miserable way to view the world. It still is.

Joe(Now the Senate will deliberate. No, Neocons, that LIB has nothing to do with Liberals, it means use critical thinking.)Nation
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 05:47 am
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
Any of us with a 401K or IRA or who inherited a small portfolio from Uncle Ed or who own any kind of property apart from our primary residence or who run any kind of business all benefit from lower capital gains.

You don't pay capital gains taxes on 401Ks.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 07:47 am
@squinney,
squinney wrote:

I'm clueless as to where that rant came from. I didn't say I didn't care.

What I'm saying is that after 8 years of republicans spending like crack whores on NOTHING BUT themselves and putting more money in the pockets of the already grossly rich, they suddenly want us to hear them cry about the kids and grandkids.

I'll hear nothing of it.

What squinney said.
0 Replies
 
BigTexN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 09:30 am
@Joe Nation,
The republicans are (finally) realizing that the economy has a crisis of confidence.

Confidence is an emotion.

No dollar amount can fix an emotion.

Thats why another bailout will not work...no matter the dollar amount...no matter where it is directed.

What works best when someone is acting irrationally, emotionally? A slap in the face.

How do you slap an economy in the face? Let it feel the sting of corporate failures.

Then, once the emotion is settled, you can come in with a stimulus...not before.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 09:54 am
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

Quote:
Any of us with a 401K or IRA or who inherited a small portfolio from Uncle Ed or who own any kind of property apart from our primary residence or who run any kind of business all benefit from lower capital gains.

You don't pay capital gains taxes on 401Ks.


You do if you need to withdraw the money for any reason prior to turning 70-1/2.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 10:06 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Thomas wrote:

Quote:
Any of us with a 401K or IRA or who inherited a small portfolio from Uncle Ed or who own any kind of property apart from our primary residence or who run any kind of business all benefit from lower capital gains.

You don't pay capital gains taxes on 401Ks.


You do if you need to withdraw the money for any reason prior to turning 70-1/2.


So that's why we should cut the cap gains tax, Fox?

So those in emergency situations can pay a little less tax?

C'mon, get real. What you proposed will have very little stimulus effect and Parados planed your argument right good a few posts above.

Why don't you just admit: the goal is to get as much money to the upper class as possible with every strategic move you propose.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
BigTexN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 10:13 am
@Foxfyre,
There's no cap gains tax on withdrawals prior to 70 1/2.

All distributions from a 401k are ordinary tax only...no cap gains.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 10:22 am

Maybe we should tax all campaign donations raised by politicians... a politician tax.

Just how much money did PrezBO raise?


http://www.athenswater.com/images/PrezBO.jpg
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 11:29 am
@Foxfyre,
No, you don't. You pay regular income tax.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 11:30 am
@BigTexN,
So, a slap always results in lesser emotions? Since when?

What if you slap the economy and it decides to leave forever?
BigTexN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 01:47 pm
@parados,
"Slap" as in "Slap you to your senses"...a moment to think...a moment to look through the emotion of the moment...

Economies can't "decide" to leave....
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 02:52 pm
@BigTexN,
No, but the people that don't want to invest in a down economy could have even less reason to invest in an economy that is creating bankruptcies left and right.
BigTexN
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 03:10 pm
@parados,
The assumption that noone will buy anything in a down economy is a fallacy.

Try selling a brand new Mercedes for a buck in any down economy and I guarantee you'll find a buyer.

There will always be people with cash (investors) who will scavenge on the scraps (the bankrupt).
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Jan, 2009 03:44 pm
@BigTexN,
Quote:
There will always be people with cash (investors) who will scavenge on the scraps (the bankrupt).


i assume that you do not favour that our econemies be taken over by the vultures ???
hbg

http://marklevinfan.com/Images/Vultures.jpg
 

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