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Gaza: the real problem

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 03:36 pm
@gungasnake,
Gunga, you wrote:

Quote:
What exactly would you have the Israelis do? Just sit there and take it??



I’m going to take that question seriously, Gunga. I hope you can take my answer seriously…even if you disagree with it to the point of steam coming out of your ears.

What I would have the Israelis do is to close shop and move the state of Israel somewhere else…preferably to somewhere in the United States.

It was a mistake to set the state up there…which, from my reading of things, almost everyone offering an opinion at that time recognized. Almost everyone at that time, including many Zionists, warned that doing so would mean almost constant fighting.

I also understand the incredible connection Jews have with that area. But I am not saying that any of the Jews currently living there have to move out…and I am not saying that the state of Israel should cease to exist….just that the state of Israel should cease to exist there.

I think the problem cannot be resolved as things now stand, Gunga. Truly, I do not think peace is possible between the Jews and the Arabs…so long as the state of Israel exists there.

I also don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in Hell of my suggested solution even being considered.

That being the case, I think everyone has to understand that the Palestinians will continue to lob rockets and snipe…and the Israelis will continue to conduct campaigns like the one in which they are now engaged…and the killing and maiming will go on.

I don’t see how it can end…and the only solution folks on your side of the aisle on this issue ever suggest"is change on the part of the Palestinians and Arabs.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 03:39 pm
@gungasnake,
Gunga's post:

Quote:
Re: Cycloptichorn (Post 3532362)
Quote:
Why not work together with the Palestinians, make some concessions, and get a peace treaty signed?

As I understand that, they've done exactly that over the last three years or thereabouts; it didn't work out for them. All it really produced was a rain of rockets on their heads.


That is all it is ever going to produce. Negotiations will not work. Asking everybody to be reasonable will not work. If either of those things could possibly work....they already would have.

The will not work!
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 03:51 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Try reading the original article for this thread. What Heinsohn is proposing would have a major impact, whether it would be major enough to totally fix the problem is hard to say. The most major part of the solution is for the UN and the west to stop funding Gaza and the palestinian breeding program.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 04:06 pm
@gungasnake,
Another way of looking at Heinsohn's suggestions is that he is asking other countries to act inhumanely toward a people already at the edge of disaster.

Think about what he is asking to do here"to thin the population. This might make sense if he were talking about the deer herd in heavily populated areas of the eastern United States"but we are talking about human beings here.

And once again, every Jewish solution involves getting the Palestinians and Arabs to make changes!

No use repeating myself here, Gunga. I’ve given my assessment of how effective I think attempts to work out a solution will be.

We’ll see how this plays out in the short term. Probably our children’s children’s children’s children…will still be watching and wondering how it will end.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 04:53 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
Why not work together with the Palestinians, make some concessions, and get a peace treaty signed?


As I understand that, they've done exactly that over the last three years or thereabouts; it didn't work out for them. All it really produced was a rain of rockets on their heads.


Naturally, the problem here lies with your understanding and not with my formulation, Gunga.

What concessions have the Israelis made? Meaningful ones? Can you tell us what they are without looking it up? I doubt it. The truth is that they made no meaningful concessions whatsoever, and if anything sped up the process of walling off the Palestinians and dividing them further and further by building more settlements in the West Bank.

These are not conciliatory actions designed to bring about peace, but aggressive ones designed to bring about war. Be honest.

Cycloptichorn
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 10:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:

Another way of looking at Heinsohn's suggestions is that he is asking other countries to act inhumanely toward a people already at the edge of disaster.

Think about what he is asking to do here"to thin the population. This might make sense if he were talking about the deer herd in heavily populated areas of the eastern United States"but we are talking about human beings here.


That's interesting to say the least...

Am I my brother's keeper? That's a no brainer, the obvious answer is yes. Those people, however, are not my brethren.

What about my NEIGHBOR's keeper? That one is going to have to depend on the nature of the neighbor. If one of my neighbors is such a total asshole that HIS OWN family refuses to help him and would just as soon watch him starve, I have to figure they probably know a bit more about the guy than I do. Again Heinsohn:

Quote:

The reason for Gaza's endless youth bulge is that a large majority of its population does not have to provide for its offspring. Most babies are fed, clothed, vaccinated and educated by UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East. Unlike the U.N. High Commission for Refugees, which deals with the rest of the world's refugees and aims to settle them in their respective host countries, UNRWA perpetuates the Palestinian problem by classifying as refugees not only those who originally fled their homes, but all of their descendents as well.

UNRWA is benevolently funded by the U.S. (31%) and the European Union (nearly 50%) -- only 7% of the funds come from Muslim sources.....


Other than that, your suggest for moving Israel involves a very bad assumption, i.e. that the slammite world is not interested in swallowing Europe or the Americas and wold be satisfied for all time with the removal of Israel. Kind of like hoping that if you're good to him, the crocodile will eat you last.

Islam is said to have bloody borders, and that's all over the world and you can ask Indians about it if you can't find any Israelis to talk about it. The elimination of Israel from its present location would simply shift the focus a few hundred miles.







Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 10:13 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Am I wrong, or are the nearby Arab nations not really attempting to solve the Palestinean's concerns - infrastructure, jobs/economy, etc.? Does one not go to family for assistance, before one goes to strangers?
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 10:18 pm
@gungasnake,
Let us be honest when talking about the three monotheistic religions, relative to how converts are achieved. The Jews dissuade conversions. The Christians obtain converts by showing the benefit of being a follower of Christ. And, I will not even broach the Moslems. Perhaps, this is something that needs to be taken into account when discussing the thread?
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Jan, 2009 10:50 pm
@Foofie,
There was in fact a time when Christianity was spread via fire and sword, but that time was many centuries ago.

Likewise you can read about slavery in the Christian world but you need to open a history book to do it. You can read about slavery in the slammite world by opening any slammite newspaper to the classified ad section under 'S' or, actually, under 'W' as well since women are basically slaves in slammite nations.
0 Replies
 
 

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