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Fri 19 Dec, 2008 10:17 am
Minnesota Recount Will Drag Into Next Year
by BRIAN BAKST - AP
December 19, 2008
ST. PAUL, Minn. " Democrat Al Franken edged ahead of Republican incumbent Norm Coleman on Friday for the first time in Minnesota's long-running U.S. Senate recount.
Franken opened up a slight lead on the fourth day of a state Canvassing Board meeting to decide the fate of hundreds of disputed ballots.
The change was notable because Coleman led Franken in election night returns and also held a 188-vote lead before the board took up challenged ballots. But its significance was limited, with the possibility the lead could change again before the long recount ends.
The board had several hundred remaining challenges to resolve, with a goal of doing so by Friday. Both Coleman and Franken are also waiting to see how much they gain from some 5,000 challenges that they withdrew, and the board won't allocate those until Monday.
The outcome of the recount also depends on an estimated 1,600 absentee ballots that were improperly rejected. The state Supreme Court ruled Thursday that those ballots must be counted, and set a Dec. 31 deadline for counties to work with the candidates to identify and count them.
The high court ruling virtually guaranteed that the recount would sprawl into the new year. With Congress set to convene Jan. 6, Gov. Tim Pawlenty said his staff was researching the possibility of a temporary appointment.
But Pawlenty said it was unlikely he would do so because he expected the recount would be resolved by then.
The ballot that put Franken in the lead came from Rochester, where a voter's mark for Franken filled not just his oval but a good chunk of territory next to it. A challenge from the Coleman campaign was rejected.
Before the five-member canvassing board began reviewing challenges Friday, it rejected a request from the Coleman campaign to disqualify hundreds of ballots that the campaign argued were duplicates and had been counted twice.
G. Barry Anderson, a Supreme Court justice serving on the board, said the issue was not the board's to decide.
"While I think there is a serious issue here, the location, extent and remedy lie elsewhere," Anderson said.
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
It doesn't seem like counting votes should be that difficult of a problem.
I just hope someone comes up with an accurate and reliable balloting system sometime soon, and it gets implemented everywhere.
@rosborne979,
Nothing will ever be 100% accurate simply because it is humans that vote.
@parados,
Maybe they should scan each vote as the voter exits and have the machine flash a green or red light if it records the vote effectively.
If it's a red light, then send the voter back into the booth to try again.
But if the light is green, "the trap is clean".
(line from GhosBusters)
Just as with the 2000 presidential election the courts are going to have to effectively decide.
Neither of these candidates are going to concede based on this ridiculous recount process that is ripe for fraud and corruption.
Where in the article does it say that Franken is projected to win?
@rosborne979,
How is a machine supposed to tell if a person wanted to not vote in a race?
Or tell if the vote for "Lizard People" is intended vs the vote for Franken?
@Finn dAbuzz,
The recount isn't ridiculous. It is being handled quite well. There is no way for fraud and corruption in the recount to be ripe let alone even appear. There is human error in some ballots lost but the board decided they should be counted even though lost. At present, those ballots won't change the outcome if it continues with Franken ahead by over 200 votes.
The only thing ridiculous is the campaign challenges by both sides (with Coleman now running to the courts every 20 minutes to whine about the decisions.)
@parados,
Quote:There is human error in some ballots lost but the board decided they should be counted even though lost.
If the ballots are "lost", then how do you know how they are marked?
How do you count it if you dont have it to count?
@mysteryman,
The machines count it and give you a total on election night.
The recount recounts the ballots by hand allowing a comparison to the earlier count.
If the ballots are lost before the recount you are faced with a predicament. Why should those voters lose their votes just because of someone else's error? I think it is a reasonable thing to rely on the first count if the ballots can't be found. This is not thousands of ballots. It is one package of ballots containing 130 ballots. It's easy to check the total ballots vs the number of voters that signed in to vote on election day. These aren't phantom ballots. The ballots were given out and most likely turned in with votes on them. They have been lost. I could care less who the ballots favor because the idea is the votes should be counted.
Bottom line is without the ballots to hand recount then the machine total should be used. Its unfortunate but better than the alternative.
@parados,
Quote:The recount isn't ridiculous.
Now that your guy is supposedly ahead.
It wasn't ridiculous when he was behind either.
@Finn dAbuzz,
The recount is mandated by law. That makes it not ridiculous. It wouldn't be ridiculous no matter who wins.
The lead by Franken could well be as temporary as Coleman's increase of his lead. (They have to add back in about 4000 ballots that were contested and then the contest revoked.) Whoever wins won't change my view of the recount not being ridiculous.
Your attempt to slander me only points out your own partisan nature Finn. I expect recounts to end with the same winner as the first count simply because they usually do. I will be surprised if Franken wins and disappointed if he contests the outcome if he loses.
Signal to noise ratio here has gone south, i.e. who 'won' this one depends totally on how you care to interpret ambiguous data.
PARTICULARLY given the fact that a third party candidate absorbed something like 15% of the vote, there has to be a runoff election for this one. No other solution is even rational.
@gungasnake,
You offering to pay the cost of a new election gunga?
The state of MN is projecting a 5 billion deficit. They don't have the money to hold a runoff election nor is one mandated by law.
I suspect the final talley will be different than it is now. I would not even try to guess which candidate will lose.
[url]A Minnesota board on Monday certified results showing Democrat Al Franken winning the state's U.S. Senate recount over Republican Norm Coleman, whose lawyer promised a legal challenge that probably will keep the race in limbo for months.
The Canvassing Board's declaration started a seven-day clock for Coleman, the incumbent, to file a lawsuit protesting the result. His attorney Tony Trimble said the challenge will be filed within 24 hours. The challenge will keep Franken from getting the election certificate he needs to take the seat in Washington.
"This process isn't at an end," Trimble said. "It is now just at the beginning."[/url]
Source:
AP via ABC
This is an interesting read. It's the manual put out prior to the recount and includes how to count certain marks on ballots.
http://www.sos.state.mn.us/docs/recount_guide_2008.pdf
It's interesting in that it predates anyone looking at the ballots so it makes it difficult to argue the process was partisan in nature to attempt to get a certain outcome.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29992190/
Quote:Coleman dealt crippling blow in Senate race
Attorney warns of appeal after court orders review of 400 absentee ballots
With Coleman trailing by 225 votes and the Court only willing to count 400 ballots with 64 of those ballots very likely already in the Franken column because the voters were part of a suit to to include their ballots, Coleman isn't going to gain enough votes.
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