Ford....Walking The Walk?

@Bella Dea,

And hell, why was Detroit so stupid to put all it's city's hopes and dreams in one basket....GM failing would teach Detroit a much needed lesson too.

1 Reply

@Bella Dea,

Maybe Toyota will buy them out and everything will be fine?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Uh, dipshit, Detroit was built on the autos. It's never been anything else. Rolling Eyes

And it's not just Detroit, the city that's suffering.

It's the entire state.

That's what Michigan is. It's the Automotive capital.

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@Bella Dea,

Don't roll your eyes at me, you're the moron here.

Right, I understand that..but why didn't anyone in Michigan try to attract any other sort of major industry to the state?

1 Reply

@Bella Dea,

Bella Dea wrote:

Uh, dipshit, Detroit was built on the autos. It's never been anything else.

And it's not just Detroit, the city that's suffering.

It's the entire state.

That's what Michigan is. It's the Automotive capital.

At what point did the responsibility for diversifying the state's industrial and income base become abdicated, Bella? You act as if it's nobody's fault that Detroit and Michigan are failing. It most certainly is people's fault; people who got fat and rich when times were good and didn't have any foresight at all to diversify for when times get bad.

And this is somehow my problem? No. It is not. It's not that I am unsympathetic to the struggles which come, but I detest this attitude that nobody is to blame for the problem, and that we should just toss piles of cash at it to fix it.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@rosborne979,

I doubt Toyota is interested in buying anybody out unless they're in a right to work state.

1 Reply

It's also not just Detroit or Michigan. If any of the three (dog forbid ALL three) go under, how many dealerships within 50 miles of you would close? How many people are employed there in the showroom, finance department, repair/oil change/inspection shop?

What about the tire companies? How many are employed there?

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@roger,

Quote:

I doubt Toyota is interested in buying anybody out unless they're in a right to work state.

Possibly. Just a thought. But if the price is right...

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@squinney,

If the big 3 fail, the market will expand for Toyota and other manufacturers...there will be jobs for those sales people.

1 Reply

@squinney,

Don't bother squinney, they don't care. Or they don't get it, one of the two.

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@maporsche,

How many people do you think are buying cars?

1 Reply

And, let's not forget that Toyota's sales were down this year too. I guess they deserve to go under because no one is buying cars.

Quote:

U.S. auto makers continued to post sharp sales declines in November as General Motors Corp. reported a 41% plunge and lowered its fourth-quarter production forecast, underscoring why the struggling auto maker and its Detroit rivals are seeking federal assistance to help them through the current environment.

"Every manufacturer is posting awful numbers and we are no exception," said GM North American sales chief Mark LaNeve.

The dour numbers, coming on the back of October's moribund results, also saw Ford Motor Co. post a 31% decline and Toyota Motor Corp. report a 34% decrease.
Mr. LaNeve pointed out that the industry sold about 34%, or 400,000, fewer vehicles in November than it did a year ago, equivalent to "the annual volume of two full production plants that have simply evaporated in a single month. The global economic crisis and credit freeze have had a very negative impact on the vehicle market which runs on consumer confidence and available financing."

Quote:

Toyota reported sales of 130,307 as it recorded its seventh-straight month of decline - reflecting how the once-immune Japanese giant is now plagued by the same forces that have rocked its Detroit-based rivals.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

I'm the moron here? I'm not the one being so short sighted.

The autos go down and billons of dollars that were in the economy are gone. Millions of jobs, gone.

How is that NOT your problem?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

You act as if it's nobody's fault that Detroit and Michigan are failing. It most certainly is people's fault; people who got fat and rich when times were good and didn't have any foresight at all to diversify for when times get bad.

The people that are suffering are not fat or rich. They are the ones who'll be out of a job and on the street if the autos go under. How are they at fault?

And I forgot my source from the quote above.
Sorry, I forgot my source.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122823927738572881.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

1 Reply

@Bella Dea,

Bella Dea wrote:

Quote:
You act as if it's nobody's fault that Detroit and Michigan are failing. It most certainly is people's fault; people who got fat and rich when times were good and didn't have any foresight at all to diversify for when times get bad.

The people that are suffering are not fat or rich. They are the ones who'll be out of a job and on the street if the autos go under. How are they at fault?

And I forgot my source from the quote above.
Sorry, I forgot my source.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122823927738572881.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

There are a few different responses to this -

First, the people who are 'fat and rich' are the business leaders, real-estate investors, and politicians of Michigan. The auto game was so profitable for so long that these short-sighted fools did nothing to diversify the industrial and commercial base of Detroit and other towns. They made personal fortunes off of the sweat of the region and now are still sitting pretty. You are correct to say that those who are now going to be out of a job and suffering are not responsible for this failure to invest and innovate and diversify.

Secondly, however, each one of those people who is going to be 'suffering' has a personal responsibility for their own lives. These folks have all known, for a long time, that the Big 3 are failing! It's not as if this is coming as a shock to anyone! Why have they not been looking for jobs elsewhere? Why stay in the same job, even though you know there's a chance that the whole thing will fail, and then bitch when it fails and you are out of a job? If you see your business is failing, and you don't make plans to get a different job, you have nobody to blame when your ass is out on the street in the end.

Everyone shares responsibility for this situation, not just those who caused the problems, those who failed to do anything about their personal situations as well.

---

No bailout, let the chips fall where they may. I doubt that Washington will let that happen though, they're too afraid to do the right thing. Therefore I would demand a reorganization of these companies, a drastic one; and hundreds of thousands will lose their jobs under this as well. There's no happy ending for Detroit in this situation no matter what happens.

Cycloptichorn

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@Bella Dea,

Say 10,000 cars will be sold in December.

2000 to GM
2000 to Ford
2000 to Chrysler
2000 to Honda
2000 to Toyota

If GM goes under, and people stop buying GM cars, they'll simply buy from one of the competetors.

3000 to Ford
3000 to Chrysler
2000 to Honda
2000 to Toyota

Hey, now Ford and Chrysler are selling more cars, making more money, and they don't need to go under either....yay free market.

1 Reply

@Bella Dea,

They deserve to go under if they don't have the resources to weather this storm.

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Now the bill is $34 billion. Who want's to guess how much it will be in Jan?

GM was saying that if they do not get any money in the next few weeks they'll go bankrupt before the year is over. I really hope we get to test this. I'm sure they're wrong.

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The VP of GM is on David Gregory right now....just heard him say that if they get the bailout they'll restructure their company and eliminate 10s of thousands of jobs to save costs.

So we need to give them a bailout to save jobs.....so that they can eliminate jobs???????

I'm getting confused as to why we HAVE to do this again?

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@maporsche,

I just love the juxtaposition of two separate ideas they never thought we would put together.

Now, Treasury has a scheme to prop up housing prices. Well gee, low interest rates and easy mortgage qualification propped up housing prices, caused what we are now calling a bubble, and led to the current situation. Let's just do more of the same, and see what happens.

0 Replies

Ford....Walking The Walk?

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