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Ford....Walking The Walk?

 
 
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 10:34 am
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28012984/
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Type: Discussion • Score: 6 • Views: 2,975 • Replies: 43
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 10:36 am
@Bi-Polar Bear,
Wait a minute.....

Quote:
Mulally said Ford will seek $9 billion in government loans but may not need the aid. Ford has said it has enough cash to make it through 2009 without assistance. He is also expected to tell Congress Ford plans to return to a pretax profit or break even in 2011.



If Ford can get through this crisis, why can't GM or Chrysler?
Bella Dea
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 10:40 am
If I can get through this crisis, why can't the guy down the street?
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 10:41 am
@maporsche,
my guess is Ford is more globally stable. they have had more successful foreign partners than the other two.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 10:43 am
@Bella Dea,
You made better decisions?

So, this is a management issue........good, No bailout.
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 10:57 am
@maporsche,
So then, again, since AIG and Citi got the money thrown at them, how can you justify denying the autos?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:00 am
@maporsche,
My guess would be: the Ford Focus. One of the best-selling cars internationally.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:02 am
@Bella Dea,
I would deny anyone who asked.
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:03 am
@maporsche,
But AIG and Citi already have the money.

You can't deny what's already been given.

Justify denying the autos.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:06 am
@Bella Dea,
Bella Dea wrote:

But AIG and Citi already have the money.

You can't deny what's already been given.

Justify denying the autos.


The fact that poor decisions were made in the past is no excuse for making poor decisions in the future. By your logic, we can never decide not to bail out any business which is in trouble...

Cycloptichorn
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:07 am
@Cycloptichorn,
The difference is that if the autos collapse, we're in deep ****.

Not just Michigan. The entire country.

And that Citi execs are still spending like they have it to burn and no one is saying a damn thing about it.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:09 am
@Bella Dea,
I disagree, I don't think we'd be in deep **** at all.
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:10 am
@Bella Dea,
why would they "collapse"?

they have been due a wake-up call for decades.

they can sell off, restructure, downsize,


and just maybe build something that competes in a world market.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:13 am
@Bella Dea,
Bella Dea wrote:

The difference is that if the autos collapse, we're in deep ****.

Not just Michigan. The entire country.

And that Citi execs are still spending like they have it to burn and no one is saying a damn thing about it.



I disagree with you completely. I don't think we'd be in 'deep ****.' I think people are afraid of change and like to fearmonger about it.

At some point, if companies are collapsing, you have to let them fail or restructure them radically. If it means a recession or a depression, so what? I don't know where the idea came from that these things were avoidable. They are not. The business cycle continually defies efforts to artificially manipulate it.

Not letting companies collapse, for fear that it will sink our economy, is a sign that those companies need to go. They are doomed either way in their current form, for we cannot be reliant on a few companies to prop up our economy.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:17 am
Just a sampling of what would happen.

Quote:
Who would suffer the most?: A tie between American Axle and Magna International. American Axle rakes in 78% of its sales from GM North America"by far the largest concentration of any of the suppliers to any of the auto makers. American Axle would see $832 million in lost sales from GM, according to Lache’s analysis. Magna International would suffer $1.2 billion in lost sales if GM went bankrupt, another $1.3 billion from a Ford bankruptcy and $1.5billion from Chrysler.


Anyone doing the math? That's a lot of money from just a few places. How can no one see the domino effect?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:18 am
@Bella Dea,
Bella Dea wrote:

Just a sampling of what would happen.

Quote:
Who would suffer the most?: A tie between American Axle and Magna International. American Axle rakes in 78% of its sales from GM North America"by far the largest concentration of any of the suppliers to any of the auto makers. American Axle would see $832 million in lost sales from GM, according to Lache’s analysis. Magna International would suffer $1.2 billion in lost sales if GM went bankrupt, another $1.3 billion from a Ford bankruptcy and $1.5billion from Chrysler.


Anyone doing the math? That's a lot of money from just a few places. How can no one see the domino effect?


So? It's not my job, nor the country's job, to keep these businesses in business. Or to keep their workers employed. It just isn't.

Cycloptichorn
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:21 am
@Cycloptichorn,
I hope you'll be satisfied sitting at your cushy job with your feet up as millions of people are tossed out of their jobs.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:23 am
@Bella Dea,
a bunch of us are already unemployed, dear.

they are not just gonna close the doors and walk away if they don't get the handout.

it is going to get worse everywhere, but these giant pay-offs to inefficient monsters is ridiculous.
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:26 am
@Rockhead,
I live in a state with an unemployment rate of over 9%. The foreclosure rate is 2%, the third highest in the country. The personal bankruptcy rate is ranked fouth highest in the country.

How much worse is it going to get here? Why don't you all move to Detroit?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 11:42 am
@Bella Dea,
Bella Dea wrote:

I live in a state with an unemployment rate of over 9%. The foreclosure rate is 2%, the third highest in the country. The personal bankruptcy rate is ranked fouth highest in the country.

How much worse is it going to get here? Why don't you all move to Detroit?


Here in CA the unemployment rate is 8.5 and our foreclosures on houses are through the roof. Not like things are fabulous all over and we're all laughing at you or anything.

But, the fact that people are going to have to experience hardship or make changes in their lives is not a material consideration when it comes to proper business practices. If the big 3 can't live on their own, it's not worth it to the nation to artificially keep them alive. It will only prolong the problem.

Either way drastic changes are going to have to be made and either way hundreds of thousands will lose their jobs. If the big 3 are to be 'saved' they will re-org thousands right out of their inefficient jobs.

I am not willing to continually pay through the nose to keep these assholes in business. I know it will impact people's jobs, but heck. Where's their responsibility for seeing this coming? It seems that everyone who works at one of these companies or with the union has known for years that the auto industry is fucked here in America; where's their personal responsibility for finding different jobs and careers?

I feel bad for those who will be hurt, but it's necessary; and I oppose a bailout, just like I opposed the financial rape of a bailout we've already done. Let the chips fall where they may.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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