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New PBS series exposes Old Testament fairy tales

 
 
Zippo
 
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 02:03 pm
A visually stunning two-hour special edition of "Nova" examines decades of archaeological studies that contradict much of what is in the Bible. The entire Exodus story is debunked, as is the idea that the Israelites were monotheistic following the contract made between God and Abraham. It turns out idol worship was common through the reign of King David and right up to the Babylonian exile.

MORE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081117/tv_nm/us_television_bible
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 1,234 • Replies: 19
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 03:47 pm
Looks like it airs tomorrow (Tuesday) evening. There's a link to more information, clips and local listing times and channels at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 03:54 pm
I've said this before: there were three or four categories of things going in in OT times which are totally outside of our own experience and it is too easy to believe that something is impossible simply because it hasn't been seen in 2500 years.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:08 pm
@Zippo,
Zippo wrote:

A visually stunning two-hour special edition of "Nova" examines decades of archaeological studies that contradict much of what is in the Bible. The entire Exodus story is debunked, as is the idea that the Israelites were monotheistic following the contract made between God and Abraham. It turns out idol worship was common through the reign of King David and right up to the Babylonian exile.

MORE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081117/tv_nm/us_television_bible


I thought the Exodus story is about Jews arriving in New York after centuries of persecution in Europe? And, I thought Jews were monotheistic, since the price of stone idols had gone up? Regardless, Judaism has been quite successful in its offshoot - Christianity. Have you heard of that religion?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 03:56 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:

I've said this before: there were three or four categories of things going in in OT times
which are totally outside of our own experience
and it is too easy to believe that something is impossible simply
because it hasn't been seen in 2500 years.

What ??
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 05:40 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Meteorite storms would do for starters...

Quote:

...JOS 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were
in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from
heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with
hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword...


Seen any meteorite storms recently?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 06:01 am
@gungasnake,
I 've seen some shooting stars.

What does "JOS" mean ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 06:02 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:

Seen any meteorite storms recently?

not on Earth, but on Jupiter
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 06:46 am
The Perseids, an annual meteor shower which occurs when the earth moves through the remnants of the tail of a comet (last passed the earth in the 1860s), has been observed for more than 2000 years. At the peak of the Perseid shower, in mid-August, as many as one a minute can be seen.

I guess Gunga Din doesn't get out to look at the night sky very often. A quick trip to Wikipedia yields this list of common meteor showers. Gunga Din serves constantly to remind us of the power of credulity.
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 09:48 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
What does "JOS" mean ?


Book of Joshua.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 10:01 am
@Setanta,
I take it you've seen meteorite storms HITTING THE EARTH AROUND PEOPLE AND KILLING LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE recently??

THAT is what I'm talking about....
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 08:40 pm
@Zippo,
Zippo wrote:

A visually stunning two-hour special edition of "Nova" examines decades of archaeological studies that contradict much of what is in the Bible. The entire Exodus story is debunked, as is the idea that the Israelites were monotheistic following the contract made between God and Abraham. It turns out idol worship was common through the reign of King David and right up to the Babylonian exile.

MORE: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081117/tv_nm/us_television_bible


If I understood this special last night, the biblical contract between God and Abraham may have been written so far later than the event that the veracity of the story comes into question. Plus, the Israelites were actually Caananites. Plus, on some hieroglyphics where an Egyptian Pharoh claims to have killed all Israelites (previously known as Caananites), the question is then who became Jews? My guess is other local tribes decided to adopt the moniker. Sort of like an Elvis impersonator, only en masse. History may actually be quite humorous.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 09:23 am
@Foofie,
Quote:

on some hieroglyphics where an Egyptian Pharoh claims
to have killed all Israelites

U believe that claims of Egyptian Pharos were all historically true ?





David
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 09:43 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:

on some hieroglyphics where an Egyptian Pharoh claims
to have killed all Israelites

U believe that claims of Egyptian Pharos were all historically true ?





David


These Israelites (possibly actually Caananites from western city states) were not great Roman Legions, in that anyone would want to falsely boast about defeating, in my opinion. If it was not true, in the mind of the Pharaoh, I believe it would have appeared as boasting about something of little consequence. I tend to think the Pharaoh killed most, even though it was stated in the stone on the PBS special that all were killed. The question is then, who became the Israelites of the ongoing story? Again, I think local tribes just adopted the Israelite moniker to give credence and legitimacy to their taking over "the neighborhood" that was the scene of the Pharaoh's victory.

It is possible that the Israelites had already made a connection in the minds of the known world there that they had an invisible God. Perhaps, to adopt this God, the locals felt they must assume the identity of Israelites? Let us not forget that in early Christianity, to become a follower of Jesus, one had to be, or become, a Jew. In effect, the early Israelites (nee Caanites) had no one to function like St. Paul (proselytize to the nomads). The thought may have been that new territory came with a respective God for that territory, so if one moved into the neighborhood, one had to accept the local God also?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 11:47 am
@gungasnake,
I take you have reliable eyewitness evidence that this happened thousands of years ago? THAT is what i'm talking about . . .

If you want to subscribe to fairy tales of a dubious provenance, help yourself. Don't expect to be taken seriously, however.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 06:47 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:

on some hieroglyphics where an Egyptian Pharoh claims
to have killed all Israelites

U believe that claims of Egyptian Pharos were all historically true ?






David


These Israelites (possibly actually Caananites from western city states) were not great Roman Legions, in that anyone would want to falsely boast about defeating, in my opinion. If it was not true, in the mind of the Pharaoh, I believe it would have appeared as boasting about something of little consequence. I tend to think the Pharaoh killed most, even though it was stated in the stone on the PBS special that all were killed. The question is then, who became the Israelites of the ongoing story? Again, I think local tribes just adopted the Israelite moniker to give credence and legitimacy to their taking over "the neighborhood" that was the scene of the Pharaoh's victory.

It is possible that the Israelites had already made a connection in the minds of the known world there that they had an invisible God. Perhaps, to adopt this God, the locals felt they must assume the identity of Israelites? Let us not forget that in early Christianity, to become a follower of Jesus, one had to be, or become, a Jew. In effect, the early Israelites (nee Caanites) had no one to function like St. Paul (proselytize to the nomads). The thought may have been that new territory came with a respective God for that territory, so if one moved into the neighborhood, one had to accept the local God also?

1 ) I remember a presentation on the History Channel
of a faro in a questionable state of mental health
causing scribes to disperse thru out the country
engraving hieroglyphics on monuments thru out Egypt
of him standing alone and defeating an army,
inflicting 1000s of casualties upon his foes.
Being a monarch does not render a man immune
from losing his mind.

2 ) Early Christians considered themselves to be Jews.
Is there evidence that in order to become a follower of Jesus,
one had to become a Jew, converting from something else
if he were not already a Jew ?

If a miscellaneous Chinaman chose to agree with him,
I think that woud be OK with him, without converting to become a Jew.

So far as I am aware, Jesus did not declare that
in order to follow him, that was a requirement.





David
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 12:45 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
I was under the belief that the early Christians were Jews. While circumcision can be frightening and dangerous for a converting adult, I believe one theory was that many people celebrated Jewish holidays, and then when they had a son, they took the infant for circumcision. From then on the family could feel they were Jewish, or perhaps part of the sect that followed Jesus (eventually to become its own faith).

I wonder though why so few European men get circumcised, but so many Americans do? Is the U.S., as an originally Protestant country, more the followers of Old Testament shtick?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 06:09 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

I wonder though why so few European men get circumcised,
but so many Americans do? Is the U.S., as an originally Protestant
country, more the followers of Old Testament shtick?

I am under the impression that it is for reasons of personal hygiene;
better cleanliness, to avoid infections.

That was my own physician 's idea,
when I was several months old.
I m glad for that.





David
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 08:27 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Foofie wrote:

I wonder though why so few European men get circumcised,
but so many Americans do? Is the U.S., as an originally Protestant
country, more the followers of Old Testament shtick?

I am under the impression that it is for reasons of personal hygiene;
better cleanliness, to avoid infections.

That was my own physician 's idea,
when I was several months old.
I m glad for that.





David



I understand. So why do Europeans, with their longer tradition of western medicine, not do the same? Could there be some concern about making sure the men do not become Jewish or Moslem, perhaps? Or, allow males to be discerned as Christian or Other?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2008 02:03 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

OmSigDAVID wrote:

Foofie wrote:

I wonder though why so few European men get circumcised,
but so many Americans do? Is the U.S., as an originally Protestant
country, more the followers of Old Testament shtick?

I am under the impression that it is for reasons of personal hygiene;
better cleanliness, to avoid infections.

That was my own physician 's idea,
when I was several months old.
I m glad for that.





David



Quote:

I understand. So why do Europeans,
with their longer tradition of western medicine, not do the same?

I have no way of knowing.
I 'm just glad that I don 't look like that.

Quote:

Could there be some concern about making sure the men do not
become Jewish or Moslem, perhaps?

That is not plausible.





David
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