11
   

Man created the gods, why do we believe God created man?

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:10 pm
@Walter Hinteler,

That Catholic site said "religion is not defined in the Constitution".

I wouldn't look for its definition there either, personally. I'd go to a good dictionary, where you can get a definition without gobbledegook, claptrap, or red herrings.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:14 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Steve 41oo wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
And my views brand me as idiotic by the ...the Atheist...and heretical by the Christians...
well perhaps thats something Christians and atheists can agree on eh?


Well you are a very smart, reasonable, and kind gentleman, so if you say so, then it must be true.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:15 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
....but then my view of evolution as well as origins of the universe also include Intelligent Design that I call God.


God doesn't use broken tools.


Explain please.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:22 pm
Steve writes
Quote:
Atheism is not theism by definition. Atheism is not a religion, just as someone who is of no religion is not religious. It is extremely silly to try and argue that faith is the same as lack of faith, and people who do so are extremely silly persons imho.


Again Religion does not require any theistic belief. Buddhist are not theists. Do you say that Buddhism is not a religion?

What is religion? It is holding to principles of faith that are expressed or preached as truth and include a describable doctrine and which may or may not direct how one lives his or her life. There are people who profoundly believe in God who give no indication that they are the least bit religious. And there are some who preach Atheism who are fanatically religious about that.

If you profess Atheism you say there is no god, but you cannot prove that to me. If I am a Theist, I say that God exists, but I cannot prove that to you. Both beliefs require an element of faith for their foundations.

Anyway, I am not the one who decided Atheism is a religion, though I arrived at that conclusion based on the behavior of some Atheists especially on message boards. The Supreme Court of the United States came to that conclusion. Argue with them if you like. You won't change my mind.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:25 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
Again Religion does not require any theistic belief.

How, Foxfyre, do you translate "religio"?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:31 pm
@Foxfyre,
I've looked now through various websites including Thomas: I really can't find any decission where the Supreme Court of the United States came to the conclusion that Atheism is a religion.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've looked now through various websites including Thomas: I really can't find any decission where the Supreme Court of the United States came to the conclusion that Atheism is a religion.


Then you simply did not look through the links I provided.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Again Religion does not require any theistic belief.

How, Foxfyre, do you translate "religio"?



Religio = religion.

From the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. Note that only one out of four definitions refers to any form of God or deity.

Quote:
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: \ri-ˈli-jən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Anglo-French religiun, Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back " more at rely
Date: 13th century

1 a: the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1): the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2): commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:39 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Quote:
But its for the theists to offer something to support their assertion that the being they call God does in fact exist. They havent done so yet.


I thought I had done so. If it isn't to your satisfaction Steve what can I say?

0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:39 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
If you profess Atheism you say there is no god, but you cannot prove that to me. If I am a Theist, I say that God exists, but I cannot prove that to you.
You havent read or deliberately ignored my position, which I stated clearly. I have never said there is no God. It is not for me to attempt the impossible and prove a negative. Clearly you cannot prove the existence of God. But just a tiny weeny little bitty hint of evidence or even logic to back up your assertion would help. The theists provide nothing except resorting to the tautological argument that they have faith in God, therefore God exists. It just wont do, and I think you know that full well, but wont admit it.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 05:06 pm
@Steve 41oo,
But Steve- the Materialist Theory of Mind would say that to have faith in a God requires thoughts to that effect to exist in the brain/mind/body trinity and that these thoughts are physical objects consisting of chemical and electrical reactions because otherwise they are immaterial and therefore possibly capable of being imagined as "soul".

The main question then, the only question really, is the effect of these thoughts on the constitutions and social relations of those having them in the sense, say, of happiness and effectiveness in survival terms for both the individual and the society.

As there are no societies without religion in some form ( a set of unprovable beliefs which work) it is reasonable to assume that evolutionary forces have deselected your position and that you hold to such a position due to lack of education and your being a cantankerous old curmudgeon who looks for easy piss-taking opportunities and think you having found one here.

Whether you can see it or not I think that your racing bike and the roads you ride it on in relative peace cannot be imagined arising out of anything other than a developed Christian society. Also your bacon baps, Sky Sports and lingerie shops. It is very noticeable that attacks on Christianity are usually based on it in its undeveloped forms and are passe now.

I thought I had better mention the lingerie shops in case you think I might have forgotten the ladies.

I agree that one cannot have faith if one hasn't got faith but one might consider not trying to persuade those who have faith to ditch it. If everybody took you at your word I can't see how things would work out.

Your objections are only tolerated because they represent no serious danger.

Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 05:22 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Steve 41oo wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
If you profess Atheism you say there is no god, but you cannot prove that to me. If I am a Theist, I say that God exists, but I cannot prove that to you.
You havent read or deliberately ignored my position, which I stated clearly. I have never said there is no God. It is not for me to attempt the impossible and prove a negative. Clearly you cannot prove the existence of God. But just a tiny weeny little bitty hint of evidence or even logic to back up your assertion would help. The theists provide nothing except resorting to the tautological argument that they have faith in God, therefore God exists. It just wont do, and I think you know that full well, but wont admit it.


Well I didn't mean you personally. I was using a rhetorical 'you' and "I' and I apologize for not making that clear. (Not that you have apologized for intentionally insulting me, but who's counting?)

No, I cannot prove the existence of God. The only 'proof' available is the existence of a great crowd of witnesses who say they have also shared the experience. How do you prove that you do or do not dream in color? That is an experience unique to you but somebody who does not dream in color can reasonably believe that such a thing is possible based purely on the large amount of witnesses who testify to such a thing. But probably some don't believe it because they themselves have not experienced it.

How do you prove to somebody else that you conceived of an idea or concept or imagined something long before it was shown to you? It's frustrating to be called a liar in such circumstances when you know that you are not. But you have no way of proving that you are telling the truth.

I know I have experienced God. I have talked to and read the words of a large crowd of witnesses who describe similar experiences to that I have experienced. That is proof enough for me.

I don't need for you--rhetorical you--to believe it in order for it to be real to me. And it is possible that you--rhetorical you--will choose to not believe what you have not experienced for yourself.

It's always sort of amusing to me, however, how religiously and passionately Atheists deny the existence of God and use lack of tangible proof as sufficient justification for their convictions when they are perfectly willing to believe in many other things which they have never experienced or seen just because others testify that such things exist.

Almost makes a case for there being a Satan at work in the world, doesn't it. (That's not a statement. Just a thought.)







Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 10:32 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Religio = religion.


We learnt it differently in Latin classes.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 10:42 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Religio = religion.


We learnt it differently in Latin classes.


Missed to add this:

see the use of the word by Plautus and later Cato - or any Latin dictionary.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 10:45 pm
@Foxfyre,

[quote='"Foxfire"]
Re: Walter Hinteler(Post 3444954)
Walter Hinteler wrote:

I've looked now through various websites including Thomas: I really can't find any decission where the Supreme Court of the United States came to the conclusion that Atheism is a religion.


Then you simply did not look through the links I provided. [/quote]

These links stated that atheists have the same rights under the Constitution as religious adherents.

This is a long way from stating that atheism is a religion....which it plainly isn't.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 10:58 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:

These links stated that atheists have the same rights under the Constitution as religious adherents.

This is a long way from stating that atheism is a religion....which it plainly isn't.


Thanks you. That was how I read it, too. But since I'm not a native English speaker ...
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 11:06 pm
@Walter Hinteler,

Walter, you are far too modest.

Why can't you sleep, anyway? Smile
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 11:06 pm
@Chesterton,
who created god then? does god live in a exponentially bigger universe than ours with an exponentially even bigger god he worships?
OGIONIK
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 11:08 pm
@OGIONIK,
god is not all-powerful, he is the most powerful.

whoever has the most power, is god. it is a title, not an entity.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Oct, 2008 04:50 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
I'm not buying that...



Irrelevant.

You're claiming something mathematical, that is, that the theory of evolution is infinitely improbable. Since I can say that about any conclusion I find unpalatable, and since we are talking about mathematics, you're going to have to demonstrate for us that it is infinitely improbable, or else cease saying that. If you're right, such a demonstration should be easy, and if you can't do it, then stop talking about statistics.
0 Replies
 
 

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