11
   

Man created the gods, why do we believe God created man?

 
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:25 am
@gungasnake,

Phooey ptooey wrote:
Irrelevant.


Ah. The eternal verities.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 08:59 am
To say that 'there is not a shred of evidence that a god exists' flies in the face of hundreds of millions (conservative estimate) who testify that they have experienced God by whatever name. The most compelling evidence that exists for any of us is that which we have experienced ourselves.

Atheism is of course a religion. It is recognized as such by the U.S. government. It has its own websites and everything. But it isn't a religion for that reason. It is a religion because it requires as much faith to disbelieve in an experience claimed by hundreds of millions as it does for those hundreds of millions to accept some of the doctrines explaining what they have experienced. Further Atheists promote their religion, defend it, profess doctrines to support it, and, if you go by the fervor by which they promote it, they proselyze and evangelize like crazy.

It is as unsupportable for the Atheist to proclaim that the religious are all delusional as it is for the religious to proclaim that the Atheists are all going to hell. Neither has any way of knowing that.

So in answer to the question of why God created man, that is easy for me. I believe God created everything.

For the question of man creating God? It seems unreasonable that every single culture known on Earth would have done so without something of substance underpinning that phenomenon.

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 09:10 am
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Atheism is of course a religion. It is recognized as such by the U.S. government. It has its own websites and everything. But it isn't a religion for that reason. It is a religion because it requires as much faith to disbelieve in an experience claimed by hundreds of millions as it does for those hundreds of millions to accept some of the doctrines explaining what they have experienced. Further Atheists promote their religion, defend it, profess doctrines to support it, and, if you go by the fervor by which they promote it, they proselyze and evangelize like crazy.

Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you are not a theist, then you are an atheist.


I wonder that no-one in the U.S. government knew this - but perhaps they only speak English ... Oh, and do you have a link that atheism is recognised as a religion in the USA, Foxfyre?


And, honestly, you logic is .... well, a bit full of wonders: Atheists promote their religion and therefor it is a religion ... they have their own webside and therefor it is a religion .... the U.S. government [again my question: where? when? why?] recognises it as religion ...

Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 09:20 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism.

Quote:
Middle French athéisme, from athée atheist (from Greek atheos godless, not believing in the existence of gods, from a- 2a- + theos god) + -isme -ism -
Source: Webster's Third New International Dictionary, Unabridged. Merriam-Webster, 2002.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 12:45 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

If God didn't create everything then women are meaningless...
ok spends I'll give you the opportunity to reflect on your opening phrase. Would you like to modify or expound on that in any way?
The fact is Spendy you are an intelligent fellow and well read, if we believe your own posts, but sometimes your word games get a little tiresome. No doubt they give you an immense amount of enjoyment, so I'm happy for you. Sort of.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 12:54 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

To say that 'there is not a shred of evidence that a god exists' flies in the face of hundreds of millions (conservative estimate) who testify that they have experienced God by whatever name...
Ah so its just a question of numbers eh? So hundreds of millions believe in (different) Gods? OK I'll be generous and grant you a thousand. Million. One billion. Thats less that one fifth of the world's population. So you loose, out voted 5 to 1. Clearly god does not exist. Smile Now pick a hole in that logic.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:02 pm
@Steve 41oo,
Well, however, since Atheism is of course a religion ...
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:04 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
It is as unsupportable for the Atheist to proclaim that the religious are all delusional as it is for the religious to proclaim that the Atheists are all going to hell...


Maybe, but the evidence suggests that. At least assuming that all atheists believe in evolution; there might be exceptions for atheists who never spent the time to try to figure evolution out...

What I mean is, that evolution is so colossally idiotic on so many levels that it appears to have been set up as a test to weed out everybody who nobody with any brains or talent at all could possibly feel sorry for.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:09 pm
@gungasnake,
That's why Darwin got his BA in theology from Christ’s College, Cambridge
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:13 pm
@gungasnake,
That's un-Christian gunga. I feel sorry for them. Just take their habitual modes of expression for a start.

Sarah Bernhardt had a pet monkey which she christened Darwin. It is said that it amused her no end.

Don't bother with the literary stuff.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:24 pm
There is another way of looking at Darwin's Origins. It might have been an elaborate spoof at the expense of society ladies which he concocted, possibly with Cap't Fitzroy, to try to justify them having voluntarily exiled themselves from their company for a five-year long trip on a small ship with 70-odd British navy personnel recruited from the lower orders.

A few of his friends thought something like that. There are a few phrases in the book which might hint at such a conceit. And he was conceited.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:28 pm
@spendius,
At a famous gig where Darwin unfurled his theory to a packed house in a college the smelling salts were passed around and some ladies actually fainted.
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, however, since Atheism is of course a religion ...
How? Actually I've never said I was an atheist. Nor have I ever said God does not exist. One cannot prove a negative. But its for the theists to offer something to support their assertion that the being they call God does in fact exist. They havent done so yet.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Atheism is of course a religion. It is recognized as such by the U.S. government. It has its own websites and everything. But it isn't a religion for that reason. It is a religion because it requires as much faith to disbelieve in an experience claimed by hundreds of millions as it does for those hundreds of millions to accept some of the doctrines explaining what they have experienced. Further Atheists promote their religion, defend it, profess doctrines to support it, and, if you go by the fervor by which they promote it, they proselyze and evangelize like crazy.

Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you are not a theist, then you are an atheist.


I wonder that no-one in the U.S. government knew this - but perhaps they only speak English ... Oh, and do you have a link that atheism is recognised as a religion in the USA, Foxfyre?


And, honestly, you logic is .... well, a bit full of wonders: Atheists promote their religion and therefor it is a religion ... they have their own webside and therefor it is a religion .... the U.S. government [again my question: where? when? why?] recognises it as religion ...


Here ya go Walter

Atheism is a religion
http://catholicexchange.com/2005/08/26/96300/

A recent court case:
http://www.atheist-community.org/library/articles/read.php?id=742

And here no Christian denomination or congregation offers a website with more passionate advocacy for the tenets of its religious beliefs:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/court36.htm
(Click on the Atheism tab for its explanation of itself as a recognized religion)

It should be noted that religion has not required a belief in God or gods since our founders first debated the First Amendment. Their position was that a person who believes in no god is every bit as protected by First Amendment religious rights as one who professes faith in God. Otherwise Buddhists, among others, would be denied protection under the law. Does anyone wish to venture an opinion that Buddhism is not a religion?
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:42 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

At a famous gig where Darwin unfurled his theory to a packed house in a college the smelling salts were passed around and some ladies actually fainted.
A prize for anyone who can spot a Spendypost which makes no mention of ladies, women or the female sex.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:46 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
It is as unsupportable for the Atheist to proclaim that the religious are all delusional as it is for the religious to proclaim that the Atheists are all going to hell...


Maybe, but the evidence suggests that. At least assuming that all atheists believe in evolution; there might be exceptions for atheists who never spent the time to try to figure evolution out...

What I mean is, that evolution is so colossally idiotic on so many levels that it appears to have been set up as a test to weed out everybody who nobody with any brains or talent at all could possibly feel sorry for.


I think you were addressing somebody other than me with this, but do all Atheists believe in evolution? I bet we might fine one or two or more who didn't. I, a Christian, do believe in evolution and I don't think it is the least bit idiotic, but then my view of evolution as well as origins of the universe also include Intelligent Design that I call God. I don't think any of it is mutually exclusive. And my views brand me as idiotic by the more narrow minded and fundamentalist of the Atheist set and heretical by the more narrow minded and fundamentalist of the Christian set.

But I don't think you are idiotic if you disagree with me on that.

Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:51 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Atheism is of course a religion. It is recognized as such by the U.S. government. It has its own websites and everything. But it isn't a religion for that reason. It is a religion because it requires as much faith to disbelieve in an experience claimed by hundreds of millions as it does for those hundreds of millions to accept some of the doctrines explaining what they have experienced. Further Atheists promote their religion, defend it, profess doctrines to support it, and, if you go by the fervor by which they promote it, they proselyze and evangelize like crazy.

Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you are not a theist, then you are an atheist.


I wonder that no-one in the U.S. government knew this - but perhaps they only speak English ... Oh, and do you have a link that atheism is recognised as a religion in the USA, Foxfyre?


And, honestly, you logic is .... well, a bit full of wonders: Atheists promote their religion and therefor it is a religion ... they have their own webside and therefor it is a religion .... the U.S. government [again my question: where? when? why?] recognises it as religion ...


Here ya go Walter

Atheism is a religion
http://catholicexchange.com/2005/08/26/96300/

A recent court case:
http://www.atheist-community.org/library/articles/read.php?id=742

And here no Christian denomination or congregation offers a website with more passionate advocacy for the tenets of its religious beliefs:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/court36.htm
(Click on the Atheism tab for its explanation of itself as a recognized religion)

It should be noted that religion has not required a belief in God or gods since our founders first debated the First Amendment. Their position was that a person who believes in no god is every bit as protected by First Amendment religious rights as one who professes faith in God. Otherwise Buddhists, among others, would be denied protection under the law. Does anyone wish to venture an opinion that Buddhism is not a religion?
Atheism is not theism by definition. Atheism is not a religion, just as someone who is of no religion is not religious. It is extremely silly to try and argue that faith is the same as lack of faith, and people who do so are extremely silly persons imho. Smile
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 01:59 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
And my views brand me as idiotic by the ...the Atheist...and heretical by the Christians...
well perhaps thats something Christians and atheists can agree on eh?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 02:00 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

Here ya go Walter

Atheism is a religion
http://catholicexchange.com/2005/08/26/96300/

A recent court case:
http://www.atheist-community.org/library/articles/read.php?id=742

And here no Christian denomination or congregation offers a website with more passionate advocacy for the tenets of its religious beliefs:
http://www.atheists.org/flash.line/court36.htm
(Click on the Atheism tab for its explanation of itself as a recognized religion)

It should be noted that religion has not required a belief in God or gods since our founders first debated the First Amendment. Their position was that a person who believes in no god is every bit as protected by First Amendment religious rights as one who professes faith in God. Otherwise Buddhists, among others, would be denied protection under the law. Does anyone wish to venture an opinion that Buddhism is not a religion?

I don't deny at all that Atheists are the same way protected as people who follow a religion.

I never questioned that.


In Buddhism, the idea of God(s) is to be found in the Four Noble Truths.
(Although, I must admit that I don't remember all and everything about the various Buddhist beliefs and practices - it's 40 years ago that I was taught about that in religion classes at school.)
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Oct, 2008 03:05 pm
@Foxfyre,
Quote:
....but then my view of evolution as well as origins of the universe also include Intelligent Design that I call God.


God doesn't use broken tools.
 

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