@Bi-Polar Bear,
Heh -- possibly.
I don't know though... there are some far right-wingers who think this is a BIG mistake. Many of them aren't exactly McCain fans.
@JPB,
the very thought that these politicians give a rat's ass about the "main street" people is complete and utter bullshit. They want to continue their power grab and make their rich masters richer. If right wingers are mad with McCain it's because he only wants to put 3/4 of his dick into the American people.
"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
~Thomas Jefferson (1816)
"You are a den of vipers! I intend to rout you out, and by the Eternal God I will rout you out. If the people only understood the rank injustice of our money and banking system, there would be a revolution before morning."
~President Andrew Jackson (1829-1837)
“It is well enough that the people of this nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning."
- Henry Ford
It has all been said before; just a pity the only person to have done anything about it was killed, and the plan never implemented.
@JPB,
Quote: Tempers flared, and just hours after some negotiators said they were close to a deal, negotiations collapsed.
Paulson, fearing a nose dive in financial markets in reaction, half-jokingly bowed on one knee to plead with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to keep mum about the collapse, two senior Democratic aides said.
House and Senate leaders rushed back to Capitol Hill on Thursday evening for another session with Paulson. Sen. Christopher Dodd, D-Connecticut, said it brought "some good progress."
Frank, the lead House Democrat on the issue, said no House Republican took part in the negotiations, although Rep. Spencer Bachus, R-Alabama, attended for a short time and delivered a one-page statement outlining the House GOP plan.
"The House Republicans refused to participate," Frank said. "I think this is really extraordinary."
Bacchus told negotiators that House GOP leaders do not plan to attend the negotiations scheduled for Friday morning, Frank and Dodd said.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/26/bailout.talks/index.html
WTF? Keep mum about the collapse? Oh sure... let the masquerades continue!!!
@JPB,
The reports I heard were that he was begging them not to let it collapse.
@Tryagain,
Yeah -- I agree, Try.
Earlier this week in another thread I mentioned guillotines and Madam Defarge. The "R" word is very much in the forefront of my thoughts.
@JPB,
I still don't understand why a minority party in the House can bring this to a standstill. I'm sure there's a simple explanation but I'm interested in hearing it.
Does anyone know the 4-5 points / principles of the Republican plan being offered? I heard mention of it last night, something about instead of a federal bailout allowing the troubled institutions sell off assets and giving them a 2 year reprieve on capital gains or something. Then there were a couple of other principles that were way too complicated sounding, which I think is the last thing Americans need.
We need to be able to understand what is happening and most of us do not get double derivitive asset resolutionary bond deprivations... or whateverthehell they are talking about doing.
Anyone know the Republican plan other than stalling the debate?
JPB wrote, “The "R" word is very much in the forefront of my thoughts.”
Me too: The r-word is hate speech that perpetuates the negative stereotypes that face people with intellectual disabilities every day. Yet, its use continues to gain in popularity. ..
On June 4, 1963, a virtually unknown Presidential decree, Executive Order 11110, was signed with the authority to basically strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the United States Federal Government at interest.
With the stroke of a pen, President Kennedy declared that the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank would soon be out of business.
The Christian Law Fellowship has exhaustively researched this matter through the Federal Register and Library of Congress. They conclude that this Executive Order has never been repealed, amended, or superseded by any subsequent Executive Order. In simple terms, it is still valid.
When President John Fitzgerald Kennedy - the author of Profiles in Courage - signed this Order, it returned to the federal government, specifically the Treasury Department, the Constitutional power to create and issue currency - money - without going through the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank.
President Kennedy's Executive Order 11110 [the full text is displayed further below] gave the Treasury Department the explicit authority: 'to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury'.
This means that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation based on the silver bullion physically held there.
As a result, more than $4 billion in United States Notes were brought into circulation in $2 and $5 denominations. $10 and $20 United States Notes were never circulated but were being printed by the Treasury Department when Kennedy was assassinated. It appears obvious that President Kennedy knew the Federal Reserve Notes being used as the purported legal currency were contrary to the Constitution of the United States of America.
President Kennedy was assassinated on November 22, 1963 and the United States Notes he had issued were immediately taken out of circulation. Federal Reserve Notes continued to serve as the legal currency of the nation. According to the United States Secret Service, 99% of all U.S. paper 'currency' circulating in 1999 are Federal Reserve Notes.
Kennedy knew that if the silver-backed United States Notes were widely circulated, they would have eliminated the demand for Federal Reserve Notes. This is a very simple matter of economics. The USN was backed by silver and the FRN was not backed by anything of intrinsic value.
Executive Order 11110 should have prevented the national debt from reaching its current level (virtually all of the nearly $9 trillion in federal debt has been created since 1963) if LBJ or any subsequent President were to enforce it. It would have almost immediately given the U.S. Government the ability to repay its debt without going to the private Federal Reserve Banks and being charged interest to create new 'money'.
Executive Order 11110 gave the U.S.A. the ability to; once again, create its own money backed by silver and realm value worth something.
Executive Order 11110
AMENDMENT OF EXECUTIVE ORDER NO. 10289 AS AMENDED, RELATING TO THE PERFORMANCE OF CERTAIN FUNCTIONS AFFECTING THE DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY. By virtue of the authority vested in me by section 301 of title 3 of the United States Code, it is ordered as follows:
SECTION 1. Executive Order No. 10289 of September 19, 1951, as amended, is hereby further amended - (a) By adding at the end of paragraph 1 thereof the following subparagraph (j): '(j) The authority vested in the President by paragraph (b) of section 43 of the Act of May 12, 1933, as amended (31 U.S.C. 821 (b)), to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury not then held for redemption of any outstanding silver certificates, to prescribe the denominations of such silver certificates, and to coin standard silver dollars and subsidiary silver currency for their redemption,' and (b) By revoking subparagraphs (b) and (c) of paragraph 2 thereof. SECTION 2. The amendment made by this Order shall not affect any act done, or any right accruing or accrued or any suit or proceeding had or commenced in any civil or criminal cause prior to the date of this Order but all such liabilities shall continue and may be enforced as if said amendments had not been made.
JOHN F. KENNEDY
THE WHITE HOUSE,
June 4, 1963
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Once again, Executive Order 11110 is still valid. According to Title 3, United States Code, Section 301 dated January 26, 1998:
Executive Order (EO) 10289 dated Sept. 17, 1951, 16 F.R. 9499, was as amended by:
EO 10583, dated December 18, 1954, 19 F.R. 8725;
EO 10882 dated July 18, 1960, 25 F.R. 6869;
EO 11110 dated June 4, 1963, 28 F.R. 5605;
EO 11825 dated December 31, 1974, 40 F.R. 1003;
EO 12608 dated September 9, 1987, 52 F.R. 34617
The 1974 and 1987 amendments, added after Kennedy's 1963 amendment, did not change or alter any part of Kennedy's EO 11110. A search of Clinton's 1998 and 1999 EO's and Presidential Directives has also shown no reference to any alterations, suspensions, or changes to EO 11110.
The Federal Reserve Bank, a.k.a Federal Reserve System, is a Private Corporation. Black's Law Dictionary defines the 'Federal Reserve System' as:
'Network of twelve central banks to which most national banks belong and to which state chartered banks may belong. Membership rules require investment of stock and minimum reserves'.
"Give me the right to issue and control a nation’s money and I care not who governs the country.” - Meyer Amschal Rothschild, International banker
@squinney,
squinney: "...or whateverthehell..."
You've touched on the truth - somewhat; "whateverthehell" is really "whatevertheshell." It's been a shell game that has created this mess.
@cicerone imposter,
The "shell game" is run by McCain and the Republicans hoping to create so much confusion and trying desperately to blame the Democrats for any and all problems which may come up before Nov. 4th. Senator Barack Obama will pin McCain's ears back on this issue when the debate on the economy comes up.(unless McCain finds some "crisis" to keep him away)
I can hardly wait for the debate on the economy!!!
@Robert Gentel,
Robert is correct - in a recession or as bad as it could get with runs on the banks - the poor will suffer even more. The rich will lose as well, but well they still will hve more.
@JTT,
This is what I truly agree with - if we let everything collaspe we are all screwed. Punish those that caused the problem.
The one other thing to remember - a "bailout" of say $700 billion or whatever the actual price tag is does not mean that the government owes this amount. They are buying the equity of these companies. If they get the price tag right - meaning they actually pay the amount this equity is worth - it could actually be a win-win situation. If these companies involved turn around as a result, the tax payers will actually earn money out of the deal - in other words if the value of this equity goes up, the government can turn around and sell the equity for more than the $700 billion and make money off the deal. If it goes down, then the government loses whatever the equity goes down by - unlikely to go to $0 so the actual cost will be less than the $700 b.
Why do you think Buffet bought so much equity of Merrill?
@FreeDuck,
I think what will prevent the run on banks with a bailout is that more people will have confidence in the banks seeing the government is helping out.
What has this $700 billion being doing up to now?
@JPB,
There is though a handful of places that do keep their mortgages in house - many credit unions do. I think we need to go back to keeping mortgages in house rather than how they are currently marketed.
@Linkat,
I know and I purposely got my mortgage through one of those places.
@JPB,
What toothpaste do you use JPB?
