11
   

What are you going to discuss after the election?

 
 
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2008 08:42 pm
@Borat Sister,
Borat Sister wrote:

Of course, I can't speak for Holland...but I must say that some of the vilest political (and racist etc.) rhetoric I have ever heard from clients has been from Dutch and other nice Europpean folk.

Ah well racism is another thing, for sure. You'll get a lot, a lot worse of that from Europe I think - well not racist so much, as just xenophobic, anti-immigrant. And here in "New Europe" racial bigotry is a lot worse still.

But I see that kind of as a different issue from the one about levels of partisan rancour...

Now here in Hungary they do partisan rancour, and how. Makes America look like an oasis of bipartisanism, seriously. But then here its de facto a two-party system as well...
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2008 08:50 pm
@shewolfnm,
shewolfnm wrote:

(waves to the aliens)


Shite, was that you waving at me?

Dys, here's an article you might like - http://www.humeseeds.com/hybrdlvr.htm

It put me right to sleep.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2008 08:55 pm
Mame wrote:

nimh wrote:

Mame wrote:

We're having one, too, and I don't hear any of the vitriol up here like I do on this board. [..] Why all the heat?

One of my pet explanations is that it's the two party system. In Holland we have something like 10 parties in parliament, and only when you hear the post-Fortuynists on the far right talking about "the left church" do you get the kind of vibe you get here. Otherwise there's a lot more relativation and also a lot more, I dunno, diversification - you got Greens kind of disagreeing with Socialists who semi-oppose Labour who really dislike the VVD but often can kind of live with Christian-Democrats who dislike the Democrats but have grudging respect for the Socialists or whatever ... in America, where everyone's either on one side or the other and it's a winner-takes-all contest, well ... it all automatically becomes very black/white.

Oh, that concentration of power must also play a role. In Holland, even if your party wins the elections, it's still gonna have to work out some kind of power-sharing agreement with at least one or often two other parties, and parliament is relatively strong; in America, the President and his hand-picked administration have a much bigger concentration of executive power. So there's just more at stake.

On the same count, I mean, its America - most powerful country in the world. There's just an effing lot at stake. As Dutchman or Canadian or New Zealander, you can still think, even if you've lost, you know, well - in the grander scheme of things ... how much difference is it gonna make? Not quite the same in America...

So yeah, I geuss lots of reason why the heat gets so much more painfully strung up there... but boy does it get tiresome sometimes, on that I agree. Still, I vent too. I despise the chain-yankers, but venting, sure... I do that.



I like your explanation, nimh. It's been the most reasonable one I've seen to date. However, that doesn't really explain the HEAT people expend on those who support the opposition.
0 Replies
 
Borat Sister
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2008 10:06 pm
@nimh,
I speak of political rancour, also.

But hell, you'd know from Holland....

nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 04:39 am
@Borat Sister,
Borat Sister wrote:

I speak of political rancour, also.

But hell, you'd know from Holland....

Dunno, really. I spent a year on the forum of Livable Rotterdam, Pim Fortuyn's party. And yeah, the Fortuynists will easily match the political rancour of the O'Reillys of America. The whole populist right will - the supporters of Geert Wilders and Rita Verdonk. But that's still just 20% of the voting population. I just dont see the same kind of thing Mame is talking about, that black/white kind of partisan vitriol, among backers of the mainstream parties, whether they're rightwing (Christian-Democrats, the non-Verdonk parts of the VVD backers) or leftwing (Labour, Greens - maybe with the exception of the Socialists) or center (Democrats, Christian Union). Maybe just me tho.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:44 am
@Borat Sister,
Yes, that's what I was thinking too. I mean, I'm American, and quite politically active, and I just don't see the rancor IRL that I see here.

I think that a lot of it (not all of it) just has to do with the nature of an online forum. Many of the worst offenders are annoying all the time, not just during election season (and honestly, when is it NOT election season these days? but I digress), it's just that at other times they find other things to be annoying about.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 06:44 am
@nimh,
Gosh Nimh, I guess it is just those "populist righties" who cause all the trouble. The media here, apart from O'Reilly, are all dispassionate, reasonable and objective, like MSNBC for example. Two party systems polarize a country, while multi party systems deliver only peace and harmony - as, for example, are so evident in Holland, Belgium, and even Germany where the SD party fades to competition on both the left and the right. You are generally a reasonable guy, but you repeatedly demonstrate that you too are very blind to your own prejudices.

I do agree with Mame that the vitriol and widespread self-righteousness here have become particularly tiresome. Moreover the few posters here interested in anything other than a shouting match seem to be abandoning the site. Too bad.
nimh
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Sep, 2008 07:11 am
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Two party systems polarize a country, while multi party systems deliver only peace and harmony - as, for example, are so evident in Holland, Belgium, and even Germany where the SD party fades to competition on both the left and the right.

George, it gets really tiresome the way you just make up crap. I did not say that "multi party systems deliver only peace and harmony". Cant you for once just respond to what was actually said, rather than to attack the image of the opponent you love to craft for yourself?

And what does the erosion of support of the German Social Democrats to rivals left and right have to do with anything? If anything that just illustrates my point, doesnt it? That the advantage of multi-party systems is that you dont have this black and white one half of the population against the other half stuff?

And you're not even reading what I wrote. I was saying that in Holland, the only place I have encountered the kind of black/white partisan vitriol and rancour that seems commonplace in American elections on any significant scale is the post-Fortuynist populist right (as opposed, among others, to the mainstream right!). I didnt say that it was just the populist right that was doing it in America, and thus never inferred a thing about MSNBC, so I have no idea what that particular tangent was about either.
Ramafuchs
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 15 Sep, 2008 09:11 pm
@nimh,
What are you going to discuss after the election?

I a singing bird
i will sing a lot to sooth the souls.

My job is to make USA a decent country with all the conflics like other countries in the world.
As long as a country arrogate itself to insult the humanity i am here to show my MLK, Mahthma gandhi
Karl Marx Nelson mandela
Mother theresa's civil, moral, ethical flag.
vote according to your conscience.
Ramafuchs
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Sep, 2008 01:17 pm
@Ramafuchs,
Let me die without regrets.
While i blick the world i have no English proficiency or deficiency.
The first language is a shock and a shrill noice qua qua qua.
If I die today I will leave this world without remorse, regrets, repentense but with beaming smile while some shed their tears for my departure.
0 Replies
 
Reyn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 3 Oct, 2008 08:11 pm
These are my tags:

* human interest
* lying sack of sh*t
* more BS
* global disclaimer


Laughing
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Oct, 2008 03:14 pm
@Reyn,
really didn't pay much attention to our own canadian (or the U.S. election -)though have done some postings .
we voted in the advance poll yesterday - it's all done !!!
we signed up to SILVERCREEN on cable tv . for $1.25 a month we get to view all the old movies we want .
the oiltank is filled to the brim and will last to january/february - even march if we put on an extra , extra sweater . let the winterwinds blow - i'll blow right back !
hbg
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:30 pm
@Mame,
Gail Collins tells us

Quote:
Omigosh! It’s almost here. The one and only Election Day! Except, of course, in the 30-odd states where voting has been going on for some time. Nov. 4 is not quite as much of an event there, although it’s still a big date, what with watching the returns and celebrating Laura Bush’s birthday, along with the increasingly popular feast of Half a Week After Halloween.

Our two-year presidential campaign now ends with a monthlong vote, followed by weeks of litigation over provisional ballots. After that, the new president is sworn in and given 100 days to accomplish his legislative agenda, after which everyone will start plotting for 2012.

It is a grand system in that great American tradition that has given us the seven-month baseball season and the half-gallon cup of soda. We have supersized the election. And why not? Barack Obama’s campaign budget is now supporting half the national economy. I don’t know how we’re going to get along without it, unless we can convince Mitt Romney to start gearing up instantly for his comeback.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/01/opinion/01collins.html

Quote:
The best approach at this point is probably to ignore all polls and just wait to see what happens. Take a deep breath. Do a little meditation. Make a list of all the things you’re going to do once you no longer have to spend time worrying about who’s going to be the next president.

I personally am planning to read the Russian classics.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Nov, 2008 04:46 pm
@dyslexia,
so when are our neighbours to the south getting ready for the next-after-next election - it's only four years away !

it's sort of like : christmas is over ... let's get ready for christmas (as soon as after christmas sales are over) .
hbg
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 04:39 pm
@Mame,
Help for Election Addicts
Recovery strategies for those coming down off a two-year campaign binge.


Quote:
After finally pulling that lever in the voting booth, many New Yorkers are going through post-election withdrawal. How do you cope without your constant Drudge drip, your nightly fix of Colbert, your online buddy Andrew Sullivan? Addiction specialists like NYU’s Dr. Samuel Glazer are helping campaign compulsives detox. “I have one client who’s clearly developed CNN dependence issues,” he says. “The election was taking over her life.” Here, a guide to five types of electoral junkie"and tips to ensure they get better.

Dataheads

Scandal Junkies

Hope Fiends

Palin Haters

Anxiety Relishers


details on assessment and recovery planning at the link

I know who I am. Who are you?
H2O MAN
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Nov, 2008 05:46 pm


I'm back to discussing custom guns, water quality improvement and when the future Mrs. H2O MAN
and I are going to become a married couple and which of the 3 possible roofs we will live together under.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Nov, 2008 07:51 pm
@ehBeth,
That was very funny. Razz

No doubt which type I am, of course..

What about you, which one are you?
0 Replies
 
 

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