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New efforts surface to raise minimum wage

 
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2003 01:04 am
CerealKiller wrote:
If there is a minimum wage perhaps there needs to be a maximum wage. Food for thought.


Bloody oath there should be!
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Jim
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2003 01:46 am
Aw heck - I'm not sure what to write here.

On one hand, I personally do not believe that anyone is worth millions of dollars per year - and that's whether you're a Wall Street financier, a Hollywood actor, or a professional athlete.

On the other hand, our government has made such a mess of everything it touches - would you trust them to decide who deserves to be paid what? For all it's obvious faults, I still believe the free market is the best way to determine the value of one's labor.
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jpowell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 03:17 am
Jim wrote:
Aw heck - I'm not sure what to write here.

On one hand, I personally do not believe that anyone is worth millions of dollars per year - and that's whether you're a Wall Street financier, a Hollywood actor, or a professional athlete.

On the other hand, our government has made such a mess of everything it touches - would you trust them to decide who deserves to be paid what? For all it's obvious faults, I still believe the free market is the best way to determine the value of one's labor.


For the most part I agree with you. You might find some interest in:

Looking Backwards

I found the book interesting.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Wed 17 Dec, 2003 03:39 am
The problem is, it's not really a free market. For the most part it's a group of wealthy people inventing high paying jobs to give to each other.
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Underworld
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 08:15 am
Wilso wrote:
Minimum wage is about double here to what it is in the US. And I don't believe the cost of living is double the US.


Yes it does. The effect is very real. The money the wealthy get will eventually flow to the poor. Imagine a wealthy person buying services from a poor man. This way, money flows from the wealthy man to the poor man; the trickle down effect.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 08:23 am
ye110man wrote:
a question...

why aren't wage increases just tied to the inflation rate? then we wouldn't have to revisit this subject every year.


Wouldn't that just be a sort of self-fufilling thing? Labor rate increases ARE one factor in inflation. Wouldn't that, in effect, become "I need a pay raise because I got a pay raise!"???

(As an aside - even the entitlement programs we have now that are tied to inflation still get revisited every year. The actual increase has to be approved by the Congress as a part of the buidget.)
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Underworld
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 08:25 am
Thomas wrote:

If you want people to have a higher income than their market wage, giving them money directly does just as much good for them without distorting price signals in the labor market -- which is why I prefer this alternative. For a specific example, consider how my own country does it. We have no national minimum wage at all. If an employer wants to hire you for $1.00 an hour, that's legal. But he won't find many takers, because the German welfare state provides generous transfer payments to the poor. This puts a floor to how much people are willing to work for. But more importantly, it also makes sure that people can work for very low wages and still afford the basics of life.


Really? You have absolutely no minium wage in Germany? Here in the Netherlands we have a social welfare system and a minium wage. I agree with you that a minium wage only disturbs the market and that it will bring wrong outcomes.

Maybe another solution to help the poor is to let them pay no taxes at all (how does the tax system in the USA work right now?). Maybe it can make thé difference.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 08:41 am
Underworld wrote:
Maybe another solution to help the poor is to let them pay no taxes at all (how does the tax system in the USA work right now?). Maybe it can make thé difference.


"The poor" generally pay no income taxes. I'm not sure what the exact break-point is but it's usually somewhere right around the Federal poverty standard. If you earn less than that amount then you pay no income taxes and may qualify for an "Earned income credit" which is a way for the government to give a hand out to low income people.

The poor do still pay a few other payroll taxes (towards their Social Security for example) and sales taxes on items they buy though.
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Underworld
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 08:51 am
fishin' wrote:
Underworld wrote:
Maybe another solution to help the poor is to let them pay no taxes at all (how does the tax system in the USA work right now?). Maybe it can make thé difference.


"The poor" generally pay no income taxes. I'm not sure what the exact break-point is but it's usually somewhere right around the Federal poverty standard. If you earn less than that amount then you pay no income taxes and may qualify for an "Earned income credit" which is a way for the government to give a hand out to low income people.

The poor do still pay a few other payroll taxes (towards their Social Security for example) and sales taxes on items they buy though.


Can you explain how the US tax system works (or maybe a link)? You have to pay tax on multiple levels, Federal, State, (city?), right?
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Jan, 2004 09:32 am
Underworld wrote:
Can you explain how the US tax system works (or maybe a link)? You have to pay tax on multiple levels, Federal, State, (city?), right?


Oiy. I don't have a good link that covers the entire range of taxes so this is off the top of my head:

For individuals we start with Federal "Income taxes". This is a tax levied based on all income (earned and unearned). There are numerous "deductions" that are allowed and then you get to a number called "Adjusted gross Income". If your adjusted gross income is less than a set level you either don't pay in or get refunded any income taxes withheld from your paycheck. Otherwise, the higher your income goes the higher your income tax rate in one of several steps.

Most states also have a state level income tax and they work pretty much the same way. There are a few major cities that also have their own Income taxes for their residents.

We also have what are often called "other payroll taxes" which include Social Security and Medicare taxes. Social Security is billed as a "trust fund" for your individual retirement (it really isn't) but basiclly, you pay in and when you reach retirement age you get a monthly stipend from the government. How much you pay for payroll taxes each month is based on how much you earn and how much you get back at retirement time is calculated based on how long you worked, your level of lifetime income, etc.. Income and payroll taxes are deducted straight from your paycheck and you deal straight with the government in any additional payments or refunds.

Then you have things like sales taxes which are strictly state and local level taxes. These are flat rate taxes applied to purchases. Each taxing authority decides what is or isn't taxable and what the tax rate will be. These are paid at the point of purchase much like the European VAT and teh seller takes care of dealing with the taxing authority.

Then you start getting into "other taxes" and there are thousands of them. You pay a tax on gasoline, cigarettes, alcohol, personal property (i.e. cars, boats, etc..), property taxes on land/real estate, inherticance taxes, etc.. The "sin taxes" (alcohol, tobacco and gasoline) are pretty much set at a flat rate much like sales taxes. Personal property and real estate taxes are based on the value of your property.

It's a big maze.
0 Replies
 
 

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