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Thu 24 Jul, 2008 05:23 am
If one was to gather up 2 specimens of every species of land creature, how many would there be, and how big an ark would you need to contain them for 40 days (and nights)?
Either with or without their food.
The enormous piles of poop. Shoveling 24 hrs a day would not help.
I know it doesnt answer your question however,
1. In context, the story of noahs ark really only relates to species known to the story teller at that time probably in the general location of the stories origin, not to all animal species now known around the world. I would go so far as to say it may only apply to the known usefull ie farm animals.
In this context at a very rough guess we are dealing with probably only 20 or 30 species 40 or 60 animals in total.
2. The story and it is most probably a story should only be viewed as an attempt to explain some kind of unexplained phenomenon or set of circumstances that (at the time) were unable to be explained in any other way.
It would depend on how many had evolved up to that time wouldn't it?
That's really how the dinosaurs became extinct as well...not the ice age :wink: They couldn't fit them on the ark.
I AM JUST KIDDING
dadpad wrote:I know it doesnt answer your question however,
1. In context, the story of noahs ark really only relates to species known to the story teller at that time probably in the general location of the stories origin, not to all animal species now known around the world. I would go so far as to say it may only apply to the known usefull ie farm animals.
In this context at a very rough guess we are dealing with probably only 20 or 30 species 40 or 60 animals in total.
2. The story and it is most probably a story should only be viewed as an attempt to explain some kind of unexplained phenomenon or set of circumstances that (at the time) were unable to be explained in any other way.
mmm hmmmm.
That actually why I was asking. I know people who believe that Every creature in the world was represented on the Ark.
I know they would change their thinking if one was to say, "you do realize that is X amount of species, don't you?" but it would be fun to throw out there.
Chai wrote:
mmm hmmmm.
That actually why I was asking. I know people who believe that Every creature in the world was represented on the Ark.
I know they would change their thinking if one was to say, "you do realize that is X amount of species, don't you?" but it would be fun to throw out there.
New species are being discovered by humans all the time, mostly insects, sea dwellers and plants. A new frog species was recently listed in Brazil.
I also always wondered if he took along plants that drown - such as fruit trees, sedums, cactus etc. We have also had record mass extinction since the time of Noah (mostly in the last 200 years). I guess some of Noah's hard work was for naught, or God has stopped caring about some of his creations.
I'm sure GungasnaKKKe or Real Life will be able to answer your question, Chai.
Actually you wouldn't need the actual plants/trees - just the seeds.
You can see a full scale replica being rebuilt off of I-70 in Frostburg, Maryland. It on the north side of the interstate, on a big bluff facing the Potomac.
God's Ark big contributions welcome.
Personally, I wouldn't go to sea in it--it isn't being built of gopherwood.
Rap
Actually, you've got a bigger problem than one might imagine. The text of Genesis calls for seven pair of every "clean" beast, and two pair of every "unclean" beast. (Genesis 7:2, in the King James Version: Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.)
And, of course, you had to have feed, for Noah and his brood, as well as all the critters. (Genesis 6:21, KJV: And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.)
And, it wasn't a mere 40 days and nights.
Genesis 7:17, KJV: And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
Genesis 7:24, KJV: And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 8:1-14, KJV: And God remembered Noah, and every living thing, and all the cattle that was with him in the ark: and God made a wind to pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
The fountains also of the deep and the windows of heaven were stopped, and the rain from heaven was restrained;
And the waters returned from off the earth continually: and after the end of the hundred and fifty days the waters were abated.
And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.
And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.
And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark which he had made:
And he sent forth a raven, which went forth to and fro, until the waters were dried up from off the earth.
Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;
But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.
And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
And in the second month, on the seven and twentieth day of the month, was the earth dried.
So this geezer, with his geezer wife and his three geezer sons and their geezer wives were alleged to have taken in two pair of all beasts and seven pair of all the beast which were considered clean, with all their fodder, and sailed for 40 days of rain and flood, one hundred fifty days after that, then landed on the mountain top in the seventh month. They hung out there until the tenth month--and now we've got 40+150+90 days, for a total, so far of 280 days. Then he sends birds out until the first month, which is 60 days more, and finally the earth was dried on the 27th day of the second month, which is another 40 days (remember, he landed on "the mountains of Ararat" on the 17th).
So, this clown allegedly was out there for 380 days at least. Where did they put all the fodder? Where did they put all the ****? Who shoveled all the ****?
It's a pretty preposterous story. When it comes to tellin' big, big stretchers, you can't beat the bobble.
I heard part of an interesting discussion on CBC Radio's "The Current" this morning.
"Part 1: A New Age Noah's Ark
According to The Book of Genesis, when a Great Flood threatened every creature on the planet, a prophet named Noah took a cue from God, built a giant boat, and saved most of the animals from extinction. No need to bring up unicorns here.
These days, global climate change threatens the survival of up to 30 per cent of animal species on the planet. So an international group of biologists is calling for a dramatic, almost Noah-like intervention to save them. It's called "assisted colonization." Put simply, it involves taking endangered species out of their habitats and re-locating them to territories where they're more likely to thrive.
Camille Parmesan is one of the people advocating the idea. She's an Associate Professor at the University of Texas who co-authored a paper on assisted colonization in the latest edition of the journal, "Science." "
You can listen to it
here.
Re: Noah's Ark
Chai wrote:If one was to gather up 2 specimens of every species of land creature, how many would there be, and how big an ark would you need to contain them for 40 days (and nights)?
Either with or without their food.
The term 'species' is an arbitrary term, of modern origin.
The Bible says nothing about '2 of each species' being required on the ark.
Here is the Biblical theory:
"And God said unto Noah
Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt though make in the ark, and thou shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of
the length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make in the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side therof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it." (Gen. 6:14-16).
Therefore the size of the ark would have been at least 450 feet long [137.16 meters], 75 feet wide [22.86 meters] and 45 feet high [13.716000000000001 meters]. The total available floor space on the ark would have been over 100,000 square feet, which would be more floor space than in 20 standard-sized basketball courts.
Supposedly far fewer animals would have been transported upon the ark than most think. The word "specie" is not equivalent to the "created kinds" of the Genesis account, the amount of animals then would be as few as 2,000 required on the ark. The ark could easily accommodate 16,000 animals.
Assuming the average animal to be about the size of a sheep and using a railroad car for comparison, the average double-deck stock car can accommodate 240 sheep. Thus, three trains hauling 69 cars each would have ample space to carry the 50,000 animals, filling only 37% of the ark. This would leave an additional 361 cars or enough to make 5 trains of 72 cars each to carry all of the food and baggage plus Noah's family of eight people. The Ark had plenty of space.
Once aboard, there would only only be 8 people to feed and water, provide fresh air and sanitation for the huge menagerie of animals for a total of 371 days. However, a number of scientists have suggested that the animals may have gone into a type of dormancy. It has been said that in nearly all groups of animals there is at least an indication of a latent ability to hibernate or aestivate. Perhaps these abilities were supernaturally intensified during this period. With their bodily functions reduced to a minimum, the burden of their care would have been greatly lightened.
Re: Noah's Ark
Chai wrote:If one was to gather up 2 specimens of every species of land creature, how many would there be, and how big an ark would you need to contain them for 40 days (and nights)?
Either with or without their food.
Being extremely, EXTREMELY generous I am assuming here that since the time of the flood until now
all species emerged from a single pair from each genus. (I know it's far fetched and impossible, but this was originally a reply to those who were claiming the Biblical "kind" referred to genera.)
Because some plants are self pollinating, for purposes of calculating totals I also generously assumed only 25% are
not self pollinating and would require a "mate." Also note, I have not included any of the fungi genera that would have disappeared (couldn't find the numbers I needed)
And, I didn't include any non-mammal sea life that would have perished because of the change in their environment (the amount of water would have to have increased by 340% to reach the top of Mount Everest, pretty much making needed food impossible to find).
The breakdown of total genera (two each):
DINOSAURS: 673 (1346)
EXTINCT MESOZOIC LAND MAMMALS: 310 (620)
LAND MAMMALS: 714 (1428)
REPTILES: 917 (1834)
AMPHIBIANS: 461 (922)
BIRDS: 2029 (4058)
TERRESTRIAL ARTHROPODS: 5,416 (10,832) (21,040)
ANGIOSPERMS (flowering plants) 4,238 (5,297 (125%))
GYMNOSPERMS (none flowering plants) 80 (100 (125%))
Extremely conservative total number of individuals that represent a single genus
Animals:
33,432
Plants:
5,397
Fungi: ?
Sea life ?????????????????????????
dadpad wrote-
Quote:1. In context, the story of noahs ark really only relates to species known to the story teller at that time probably in the general location of the stories origin, not to all animal species now known around the world. I would go so far as to say it may only apply to the known usefull ie farm animals.
In this context at a very rough guess we are dealing with probably only 20 or 30 species 40 or 60 animals in total.
2. The story 1. In context, the story of noahs ark really only relates to species known to the story teller at that time probably in the general location of the stories origin, not to all animal species now known around the world. I would go so far as to say it may only apply to the known usefull ie farm animals.
In this context at a very rough guess we are dealing with probably only 20 or 30 species 40 or 60 animals in total.
2. The story and it is most probably a story should only be viewed as an attempt to explain some kind of unexplained phenomenon or set of circumstances that (at the time) were unable to be explained in any other way. should only be viewed as an attempt to explain some kind of unexplained phenomenon or set of circumstances that (at the time) were unable to be explained in any other way.
Nice response dp.
I would quibble, and it is a minor quibble, that the story teller knew a lot more species himself, or themselves, in much the same way that cartoons about Jurassic life only have a few species. The animals would be thought of as useful to the story.
I would also have omitted --" and it is most probably a story." It was a story told for the reasons you have given and, I presume, for entertainment and for the art of storytelling.
Wow Dr. Huff, you are cool.
Unlike Setanta, who just tries to muddy the waters.
Chai wrote:Wow Dr. Huff, you are cool.
Unlike Setanta, who just tries to muddy the waters.
I don't understand this, since setanta only quoted the Bible and commented on it.
The number of
animal species on the planet is somewhere between 3 and 30 million. 80% of the animal species on the planet are insects.
And all of that doesn't include plants. Or fungi.
I don't know what the average volume of each pair of individuals would be. Or its food requirement. Or it's environment requirements. But I'm sure it's nothing a good dose of *MAGIC* couldn't solve.
edgarblythe wrote:Chai wrote:Wow Dr. Huff, you are cool.
Unlike Setanta, who just tries to muddy the waters.
I don't understand this, since setanta only quoted the Bible and commented on it.
just getting setanta's goat, of which there are two.
You really don't like to think that you are under a magical enchantment do you ros? It bugs you doesn't it?
You silly sod.
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