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Evolution and Genes

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 07:51 pm
It's as simple as "survival."
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:09 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
It's as simple as "survival."


Does an un-fertilized egg think about survival?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:01 pm
Rex, It's not about "thinking" for an egg.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 09:31 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Rex, It's not about "thinking" for an egg.


The fittest egg survives.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 10:24 pm
It's really not the "fittest egg" that survives. I have scrambled eggs about three times a month.
0 Replies
 
littlek
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 10:35 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
It's really not the "fittest egg" that survives. I have scrambled eggs about three times a month.


(big grin)
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 12:30 pm
RexRed wrote:
You are not giving any scientific evidence to dispute me.


You are not giving any evidence to prove your point. Why should the burden of proof be on me when you can't even come up with a single piece of evidence to back up your pseudo-scientific nonsense?

Quote:
Have you ever heard of a hen's egg magically coming to life without being fertilized by a rooster?


No, but the Desert Grassland Whiptails can give birth to offspring without the need of males. In fact, there are no males in that species. They have no Y chromosome, as they are lizards.

Likewise, in bee colonies, unfertilised eggs become female worker drones. No need for a male.

Quote:
Just as gravity is a unique property of matter, life is a unique property of the Y chromosome.


The Y chromosome is only present in mammalian males. Reptiles do not have Y chromsomes. Hence, according to you only mammals are alive. Reptiles are dead. Flies are dead. Insects are dead.

What, may I ask, does the Y chromsome do to instill life in an unfertilised egg? What does it do? You can't say it instills life in an egg if the sperm involved contains an X chromsome, for it will not have a Y chromosome at all.

Furthermore, what do you think a Y chromsome is? What is it? What do genes do you think it contains?

I have presented basic biological facts. You have presented no facts. Yet you have the nerve to put the burden of proof on me?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jul, 2008 10:52 am
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
RexRed wrote:
You are not giving any scientific evidence to dispute me.


You are not giving any evidence to prove your point. Why should the burden of proof be on me when you can't even come up with a single piece of evidence to back up your pseudo-scientific nonsense?

Quote:
Have you ever heard of a hen's egg magically coming to life without being fertilized by a rooster?


No, but the Desert Grassland Whiptails can give birth to offspring without the need of males. In fact, there are no males in that species. They have no Y chromosome, as they are lizards.

Likewise, in bee colonies, unfertilised eggs become female worker drones. No need for a male.

Quote:
Just as gravity is a unique property of matter, life is a unique property of the Y chromosome.


The Y chromosome is only present in mammalian males. Reptiles do not have Y chromsomes. Hence, according to you only mammals are alive. Reptiles are dead. Flies are dead. Insects are dead.

What, may I ask, does the Y chromsome do to instill life in an unfertilised egg? What does it do? You can't say it instills life in an egg if the sperm involved contains an X chromsome, for it will not have a Y chromosome at all.

Furthermore, what do you think a Y chromsome is? What is it? What do genes do you think it contains?

I have presented basic biological facts. You have presented no facts. Yet you have the nerve to put the burden of proof on me?


Plants are alive too they are referred to as "still life"... would you call that the same "life" that mammals share?
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jul, 2008 01:52 pm
RexRed wrote:
Plants are alive too they are referred to as "still life"...


Really? Who refers to them as still life? To me, still life is an artistic term that applies to a particular art form.

Quote:
would you call that the same "life" that mammals share?


I see, you're not interested in defending your position. You just spout out baseless assertions, then insist we take you seriously.

I have already countered your earlier assertions about the Y chromsome by stating common knowledge: that the Y chromosome is not present in non-mammalian species, that it is possible for organisms to reproduce without a male and stating what exactly the Y chromsome codes for.

Plants obviously don't share the same kind of life that mammals do, but then again, bats don't exactly share the same kind of life that humans do. This, however, is irrelevant.

You stated that the Y chromsome is the spark of life. Yet there are many other organisms out there, many of which outnumber mammals, that do not even have a Y chromosome. Your original assertion implied that only organisms with a Y chromsome are alive. Now you're changing your tact, which is understandable seeing as the information you now have contradicts your original assertion.

However, I bet that you are still holding on to your original premise about the importance of the Y chromosome. Despite the fact that Richard Lenski managed to prove that evolution occurs without the Y chromosome with his E. coli experiment, thus disproving your very first baseless assertion, and that I have given you two examples of organisms that can reproduce without a male.

Now tell me, what is your assertion again and what evidence do you have to back it up?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Jul, 2008 03:20 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Plants are alive too they are referred to as "still life"...


Really? Who refers to them as still life? To me, still life is an artistic term that applies to a particular art form.

Quote:
would you call that the same "life" that mammals share?


I see, you're not interested in defending your position. You just spout out baseless assertions, then insist we take you seriously.

I have already countered your earlier assertions about the Y chromsome by stating common knowledge: that the Y chromosome is not present in non-mammalian species, that it is possible for organisms to reproduce without a male and stating what exactly the Y chromsome codes for.

Plants obviously don't share the same kind of life that mammals do, but then again, bats don't exactly share the same kind of life that humans do. This, however, is irrelevant.

You stated that the Y chromsome is the spark of life. Yet there are many other organisms out there, many of which outnumber mammals, that do not even have a Y chromosome. Your original assertion implied that only organisms with a Y chromosome are alive. Now you're changing your tact, which is understandable seeing as the information you now have contradicts your original assertion.

However, I bet that you are still holding on to your original premise about the importance of the Y chromosome. Despite the fact that Richard Lenski managed to prove that evolution occurs without the Y chromosome with his E. coli experiment, thus disproving your very first baseless assertion, and that I have given you two examples of organisms that can reproduce without a male.

Now tell me, what is your assertion again and what evidence do you have to back it up?


It seems more that you just want to lump all life forms into one.

What part of the DNA is life? You don't know this answer yet you still speak about life authoritatively as if you do know.

I just thought I would point that out.

Life is carried on pollen, life is divided, life is propagated by many mediums and the Y chromosome can certainly be one of those mediums that transmit "life" to it's progeny.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 12:50 pm
RexRed wrote:
What part of the DNA is life? You don't know this answer yet you still speak about life authoritatively as if you do know.


This is rich coming from someone who is saying, the Y chromsome is the spark of life. You're the one who first spoke authoritatively about DNA and its role in giving life as if you do know. I quote the offending post:

Quote:
The father's Y chromosome contributes a part to a female even though she does not have a Y chromosome of her own.

The Y chromosome contributes a nearly invisible part, the life that is within the daughter female.

X being a body (shell/egg) type thing and Y being a living (sperm) type thing.

This saying, a female would not be "alive" if it were not for the Y influence in reproduction.

Body X and Soul Y
This has been known for thousands of years...


There's no, "I think this might be the case" or "it's probable" or "I believe". No. You say, the X chromosome is the body (which is a ridiculous statement when you think about how the body is generated from the other 22 chromsomes). The Y is the soul (despite the fact that the Y chromsome seems only to affect masculinity in its carriers and to create testes) and is only present in mammalian males, thus by your statement, females are soulless.

And what evidence do you provide to back up your claims, to show us that you do know what you're talking about and that you aren't making stuff up?

Nothing.

I mean, you could have cited this article:

Quote:
Junk DNA in Y-chromosome control functions: scientists

Hyderabad, Nov. 24 (PTI): Scientists at the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB) here have demonstrated that junk DNA in human Y-chromosome control the function of a gene located in another chromosome.

For long, the scientific community believed that 97 per cent of DNA material is junk and has no specific role to play in the functioning of organs.

"The study, published in the international journal Genome Research, will open up a new approach to unravel the function of the non-coding DNA in our genome," CCMB Director Lalji Singh, who led the research effort, told reporters here today.

The Y-chromosome is present only in men. Two-thirds of it contains repetitive DNA that has been thought of as junk or useless.

However, the CCMB study clearly demonstrated that the Y-chromosomal junk DNA interacts and controls the function of a gene located in another chromosome that is not limited to a sex.

"The study shows unequivocal evidence, for the first time, that 40 mega base repeat block of the Y-chromosome, which was earlier perceived as junk DNA, is transcribed into RNA and controls the expression of a protein by a mechanism described as trans-splicing," Singh said.


But you didn't.

However, before you claim this article as evidence for your belief, let me point out to you that they stated the piece of "junk DNA" controls the function of a gene. Hence, it has to be inside the nucleus with the other chromosomes for it to work. Hence, females who clearly do not have a Y chromosome do not have this junk DNA and do not have the particular gene controlled by this junk DNA.

The article I cited above is therefore not proof that the Y chromsome is the spark of life as its particular action requires it to be present in the genome. Unless you're willing to state that females are not alive, or are somewhat inferior to men.

Quote:
Life is carried on pollen, life is divided, life is propagated by many mediums and the Y chromosome can certainly be one of those mediums that transmit "life" to it's progeny.


It would be, if it were present in the sperm that fertilise an egg. But it is not in sperm that fertilise an egg that go on to become a female! It transmits nothing.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 02:54 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
You Creationists and your insistence on using the word, "kind", a meaningless unscientific word that you can twist to your own liking whenever a scientist provides an answer you don't like. Honestly! Rolling Eyes


Yeah. Not like the scientific word 'species' Rolling Eyes

Just try getting an evolutionist to give you a firm criteria for 'species'. Laughing

They run like their pants are on fire.

Hey Wolf, what is the dividing line between one species and another?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 02:56 pm
Yeah. Not like the scientific word 'species' Rolling Eyes

Just try getting an evolutionist to give you a firm criteria for 'species'. Laughing

They run like their pants are on fire.

Hey Wolf, what is the dividing line between one species and another?



What's the creationist's interpretation or criteria for "species?"
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 03:15 pm
I don't use a special 'creationist's definition'



from http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/species

d (1): a category of biological classification ranking immediately below the genus or subgenus, comprising related organisms or populations potentially capable of interbreeding




from http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

biology) taxonomic group whose members can interbreed




from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species

In biology, a species is one of the basic units of biological classification and a taxonomic rank. A species is often defined as a group of organisms capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring



from www.cnr.berkeley.edu/departments/espm/extension/GLOSS.HTM

A group of similar organisms having common characteristics capable of interbreeding.




from www.radford.edu/~swoodwar/CLASSES/GEOG235/glossary.html

groups of actually or potentially interbreeding populations that are reproductively isolated from other such groups
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 03:34 pm
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
Yeah. Not like the scientific word 'species' Rolling Eyes

Just try getting an evolutionist to give you a firm criteria for 'species'. Laughing

They run like their pants are on fire.

Hey Wolf, what is the dividing line between one species and another?



What's the creationist's interpretation or criteria for "species?"


John Gray, the author of Straw Dogs says there's no dividing line and he's a professor and a world renowned author.

A quote from the first page of Straw Dogs-

Quote:
We do not need Darwin to see that we belong with other animals. A little observation of our lives soon leads to the same conclusion. Still, since science has today an authority that common experience cannot rival, let us note that Darwin teaches that species are only assemblies of genes, interacting at random with each other and their shifting environments. Species cannot control their fates. Species do not exist. This applies equally to humans. Yet it is forgotten whenever people talk of "progress of mankind". They have put their faith in an abstraction that no one would think of taking seriously if it were not formed from cast-off Christian hopes.


I told you you were a Christian underneath c.i. You just proved it.

You can't get anybody to give you a firm criteria for 'species'. Laugh all you want. You can swallow assertions of course. That's different.

Keep rolling your eyes until you start reading some decent books.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 03:40 pm
spendi, There's a huge difference between reading "decent books" and really understanding its content. Your use of quotes from your many readings usually are non-sequitur in nature; it just doesn't follow from the topic being discussed.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 03:53 pm
Both processes still require a surrogate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_egg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_sperm

Even though both processes are theoretically possible they still require the human to "carry" or transmit the life form. This does not prove that the life essence is not commingled. Though genetic material is not transferred it is unknown how and when life is actually derived. This is not necessarily an argument but a simple questioning of the ability science has to isolate what life really is and how it passes through biology.

What does define life? Why do seemingly lower forms of life have heightened senses?

Did the dinosaurs "breath" the same air we do? Just because the physical part is in our junk DNA does not mean automatically that the life is the exact same.

Does life exist within a set of parameters or does the physical world exist due to the presence of life. Chicken or egg...

Is X the propose of Y or Y the purpose of X? Energy equals mass just as life equals the physical biology. They are echoes of creation. Light is both a wave and a particle. Light is both and egg and a seed.

A man will always be able to create a woman from using two of his X chromosomes (providing he can find a way to grow the fetus.) but a woman will be able to "alone" without the Y chromosome create women only.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Jul, 2008 04:54 pm
c.i. wrote-

Quote:
spendi, There's a huge difference between reading "decent books" and really understanding its content. Your use of quotes from your many readings usually are non-sequitur in nature; it just doesn't follow from the topic being discussed.


I consider that to be a form of squirming like sneaking out of the back door in your stocking feet is.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 07:25 am
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

this article:

Junk DNA in Y-chromosome control functions: scientists

Hyderabad, Nov. 24 (PTI): Scientists at the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB) here have demonstrated that junk DNA in human Y-chromosome control the function of a gene located in another chromosome.

For long, the scientific community believed that 97 per cent of DNA material is junk and has no specific role to play in the functioning of organs.

"The study, published in the international journal Genome Research, will open up a new approach to unravel the function of the non-coding DNA in our genome," CCMB Director Lalji Singh, who led the research effort, told reporters here today.

The Y-chromosome is present only in men. Two-thirds of it contains repetitive DNA that has been thought of as junk or useless.

However, the CCMB study clearly demonstrated that the Y-chromosomal junk DNA interacts and controls the function of a gene located in another chromosome that is not limited to a sex.

"The study shows unequivocal evidence, for the first time, that 40 mega base repeat block of the Y-chromosome, which was earlier perceived as junk DNA, is transcribed into RNA and controls the expression of a protein by a mechanism described as trans-splicing," Singh said.



The assumption that parts of DNA are 'junk' simply because we don't know the function is a great example of the arrogance of some 'scientific ' types .
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Jul, 2008 08:23 am
An arrogance that is not only anti-scientific but beggars belief as well.
0 Replies
 
 

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