Glossolalia?

Weird. I wonder if there's any relation to scat singing?

I think they must get into the same groove. Same brain wave state or something, but Scat is much more creative. Good analogy --I think.

Piffka, You could be on to something. I never cared for scat vocalizing, but perhaps it was because I couldn't do it.

I have never, myself, witnessed nor heard glossolalia, but it still piques my interest.

I've heard people do it on TV. It sounds like repetitive nonsense to me. Didn't sound like it had any language charactaristics to me. Though the article says it has happened.

fealola, I have never heard it at all, but I taught with a young woman who was a member of The Church of God, and she discussed it with me in an intelligent way. What was rather surprising, are the churches that subscribe to it, or did in their early establishment.

It seems to me that it would be a kind of mental release. A release of pressure. A kind of freedom in a way. I'm having a hard time trying to put it into words.

Total abandonment? Like singing or dancing wildly, in the secular world. Or whirling dirvishes in the religious world.

Letty! I'm so disappointed that you can't scat. The mother of one of my good friends could at the drop of a hat -(oh gosh, that rhymes, she could scat at the drop of a...) -- Anyway, it was great to hear her sing.

About this speaking in tongues... I've never heard it and think it is creepy to imagine. A lot like channeling, y'know? It figures that stupid old Paul (whom I've never liked and I doubt he'd like me either) would tell people when and where they could do it.

I would think the mind might go into a trance - like state electrically. Or a chemical change may occur.

or perhaps a type of group hypnosis. Equally as fascinating is the religion of snake handling and drinking poison. People are so quick to dismiss these situations as cults because they don't have the degree of sophistication that main stream tenets espouse. I have no idea about the dogma of either sect, but I am certain that they have been observed by serious psychologists and scientists.

Someone must have hooked their brains up to electodes by now. You have to be in some other zone to be a snake handler do any of the self abuse i've seen some of the Eastern cults do.

I like the parallel with the Whirling Dervishes... a trance-like state. The creepiness to me is that someone else could understand it and that it might have some relation to ancient languages.

Drinking poison? Never heard of that one, though I've read in mystery stories that you can make yourself partly immune to some poisons by taking incremental bits and bits over time.

I don't know about drinking poison, but the snake handlers let the rattlesnakes bite them... So your immunity theory would work with that. But, people have actually died from it.

Right, Piffka. One may build up a resistance to poisons done in small doses over a period of time. I served on a Federal jury sometime back, where a mine owner dismissed a man for continually missing work based on his snake handling which left him ill but alive. The OEO prosecuted under the law that forbids anyone from being fired based on their religious beliefs. It was a difficult case.

I recall a Johnny Mercer tune called, "The Girlfriend of the Whirling Dervish"...(wouldn't you know)

Disclaimer: everything here be related to the "tongue-speaking" of charismatic churches. Me don't know nothin' bout the so-called "secular" stuff some have mentioned.

Ise happy to give you a realistic demonstration from literally hundreds of hours of first hand observation.....


Heebeeti yeebeeti heebeeti yeebeeti YEEBEETI shandala SHUNdala shanda baranda baheebeeti heebeeti.......



It's a cool analogy and maybe applies in some cases, but usually people get roped into performing these antics by things like (1) psychological pressure to "perform" in front of everybody, (2) desire to please their leaders (3) competing with others for attention, (4) for shits & giggles. and suchlike.

Besides, I must say I find little, if any, evidence in the new testament for the kind of "charismata" claimed by some churches. In Acts, "tongues" is clearly defined as (a) the gift to speak a language without having learned it previously, (b) in the presence of someone who understands that language. Ise can explain this a lot more is anyone's interested. And language has characteristics that are distinguishable even by those who are untrained in linguistics.


Well, that article made no avoidance of outright bullshit.

MONGER

--I agree with you. The people think they're having a religious experience but it's really just some kind of high, or the performing you mentioned.

--What i saw on TV sound just like your demo!


You said:

"(b) in the presence of someone who understands that language. Ise can explain this a lot more is anyone's interested. And language has characteristics that are distinguishable even by those who are untrained in linguistics. "

----This is absoulutely true. Before my son (a baby) could speak "English" he was quite the jabberer.

I knew that one day he would pretty much start speaking words over night because his jabbering definitely had syntax!

When He did start speaking words it really did happen suddenly. Very cool.

Oh, my Gawd. It's Monger with iconoclastic tongue in cheek. Hey, buddy. I understood exactly what you said. Want me to translate?

Aramaic translation: A wet bird never flys by night. There!
Celtic translation: Who threw the overalls in Mrs. Murphy's chowder.
Japanese translation: Ah, so.
Jazz translation: It's gotta be this or that.

but

The charismatic movement is a newbie compared to the older churches that advocated "speaking in tongues"

A VERY interesting topic. Glossalia has been around for a long time, and has found it's way into many cults/religions throughout history. It supposidly triggers an automatic speech function part of the brain. May have somthing to do with the base of human language. Also an interesting topic for philosophy, neuroscience, linguistics, education....

Anyone here ever read the book "Snow Crash?" If not, I highly recommend it.

Snow Crash

Interesting 'bout the baby jabber, fea. Here's a cool article Ise posted a while back: "Seeking Deeper Meaning in the Babbling of Babies"


back to the main topic though, while it takes great effort and talent to speak a foreign language, it takes little effort to babble.

----
Letty, hee!



They're just as misguided. In the new testament the greek word glossa that's translated as "tongues" sometimes referred to the tongue, once it referred to the tongue-like fires that appeared at pentecost, but otherwise it referred to a language or dialect. On no occasion was it used to mean babble or gibberish (ie a string of meaningless sounds).

Acts 2:6 (the first time it suposedly happened) says "every man heard them speak in his own language." The story actually says 16 languages/dialects were used which emphasizes that the "tongues-speaking" was not babbling or "angelic languages." The people who heard the words understood them.
And contrary to what some say Paul never claimed he spoke in the tongues of angels but hyperbolically said "Even if I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not love, I am nothing."

Simply, the bible never advocates babbling as a religious experience.

Hey, Portal Star. Thanks for the link to Snow Crash. Looks like fun and as one reviewer said, "doesn't take itself too seriously".