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Galaxies strung like necklace beads

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2008 06:48 pm
Nobody would ever roll balls down incline planes unless they had thought about it first surely?
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jul, 2008 08:33 pm
Einstein said that information could not be passed around any faster than C. Nonetheless, any time you take five steps you are sending a gravitational message out into the void and somebody on the far side of the galaxy with a sufficiently sensitive instrument could read that message in real time; it would not take 50,000 years to get to him.

Think about it. You might even call that a sort of a "thought experiment", if you're into that sort of thing...
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 06:27 pm
What about leaning a bit to ash my ciggie.

If I go to bed it won't cause an uncontrollable inter-galactic chain reaction will it?
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Vengoropatubus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jul, 2008 10:46 pm
I'm not so sure what relativity has to say about your thought experiment gunga. The man accelerates as he moves, and I wonder what effect that might have on the "signal" you claim is intelligible to aliens 50000 Lightyears away.
Another thought experiment, if I have a string that runs between my house and yours, and I pull on it, we could measure the distance between our houses and the time it takes for you to feel the tug with some level accuracy. Would the speed of my tug be the distance between our houses divided by our measured time, or would it be some other quantity?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 03:00 am
If the string was perfectly inelastic the houses would be one object.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 03:49 am
In the early 2000's, Sergei Kopelkin and a colleague , completed an eperiment that measured the bending of radio waves by Jupiters gravity. They were able to determine that gravity moves at roughly "C". Its interesting because they basically did the same experiment that Olaf Roemer did in the 17th century , in which Roemer determined "C" by using the occultation of one of Jupiters moons. The "C" /gravity speed has been done over and over since then using even higher resolution interferometry methods at the array rom Green Bank W Va.

Sorry gunga, another shot to the "Electrical world" crap.
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 06:49 am
farmerman wrote:
In the early 2000's, Sergei Kopelkin and a colleague , completed an eperiment that measured the bending of radio waves by Jupiters gravity. They were able to determine that gravity moves at roughly "C". Its interesting because they basically did the same experiment that Olaf Roemer did in the 17th century , in which Roemer determined "C" by using the occultation of one of Jupiters moons. The "C" /gravity speed has been done over and over since then using even higher resolution interferometry methods at the array rom Green Bank W Va.

Sorry gunga, another shot to the "Electrical world" crap.

Hark, I hear the sound of yet another nail being banged into the coffin of Gunga's mind.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 01:06 pm
That's what I consider to be trolling. Coming on with nothing meaningful to say.

There is no coffin of gunga's mind, there is no nail to bang in it and thus there's no sound to Hark to. Super stuff to give the kids I don't think!

Wasted words that prove to warn
That he not busy being born is busy diiiieeeeeenng.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 02:27 pm
another turd from the mind of the spendius one. Dylan was a sucky painter as well.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 03:07 pm
Another artistic assertion eh?

By heck man--you must live by them.

I don't like people talking about other people's minds being coffins. Nobody's mind is one of those. It was obscene.

And it said nothing. If you want to defend it go right ahead.

If somebody said that about you fm I would object.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 03:10 pm
g__day wrote:
In one they want gravity to either travel instantaneously or at least 100 times faster than light - whoopsie for relativity and observed data.

In another they want electric discharges, not meteorites to be what pockmarked the Moon giving it so many craters.

There is alot of electricity is king forget the other forces - without much explaining faults in current models at all realistically and proposing some exotic views on what governs space time without hard data to support it.


Oh dear. I'm no physicist, but even I can see that's complete bull plop.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 04:22 pm
farmerman wrote:
In the early 2000's, Sergei Kopelkin and a colleague , completed an eperiment that measured the bending of radio waves by Jupiters gravity. They were able to determine that gravity moves at roughly "C". Its interesting because they basically did the same experiment that Olaf Roemer did in the 17th century , in which Roemer determined "C" by using the occultation of one of Jupiters moons. The "C" /gravity speed has been done over and over since then using even higher resolution interferometry methods at the array rom Green Bank W Va.

Sorry gunga, another shot to the "Electrical world" crap.



Massively debunked:

http://www.metaresearch.org/media%20and%20links/press/SOG-Kopeikin.asp

Quote:

Abstract. New findings were announced on 2003/01/08 by S. Kopeikin, claiming to have measured the "speed of gravity" and finding it essentially equal to the speed of light. These findings are invalid by both experimental and theoretical standards because the quantity measured was already known to propagate at the speed of light. The hyped claims therefore do a disservice to science in general and the advancement of physics in particular because the announced findings do not represent the meaning of the actual experimental results and cannot possibly represent the physical quantity heretofore called "the speed of gravity", which has already been proved by six experiments to propagate much faster than light, perhaps billions of times faster. Several mainstream relativists have also stated their disagreement that the experiment really measured what it claimed to measure.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 04:56 pm
fm wrote-

Quote:
Dylan was a sucky painter as well.


By heck fm--you have a position on everything don't you?

Once you take it there's no going back.

Dylan's paintings, currently on exhibition in a London gallery are "sucky". Shite in other words.

Why?

How do you arrive at such a conclusion?

It baffles me.

I don't appreciate them myself but I'm not going out on a limb saying they are shite.

Everything's shite to somebody. Florence Nightingale is said to have caused 8,000 deaths through her intense phucking do-gooding. Mostly agonising ones.

It's in the News that some painting or other has sold for 40 million bucks and there's a bloke on the bar saying that it's a load of crap.

If I say Rembrandt was a load of crap does it mean that Rembrandt was a load of crap?

OK. Rembrandt's bigtime CRAP.

Just paint daubed on tight-stretched canvas by a silly sod who had found out that certain members of the beta minuses, the fire brigade say, or a pregnant doxie, one successfully phucked I mean, probably missionary style, liked to have a likeness of themselves exhibited and that him being knacky at depicting them was easier than digging ditches or being in the infantry, or even the cavalry, for making ends meet.

Big phucking deal.

How could a bloke as good as Rembrandt have resisted the chance to take the piss out of his fawning patrons by depicting them as idiots whilst engaging in light pattern experiments which there was no money in doing?

Never take a position fm that you can't retreat from.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 05:16 pm
The Wolf wrote- ( are you anything like a wolf Wolf?)

Quote:
g__day wrote:
In one they want gravity to either travel instantaneously or at least 100 times faster than light - whoopsie for relativity and observed data.

In another they want electric discharges, not meteorites to be what pockmarked the Moon giving it so many craters.

There is alot of electricity is king forget the other forces - without much explaining faults in current models at all realistically and proposing some exotic views on what governs space time without hard data to support it.


Oh dear. I'm no physicist, but even I can see that's complete bull plop.


At least it had some style. It didn't just slide down the future rump steaks by gravity and viscosity coefficients as your comments comprehensively did.

But I do agree that you are not a physicist. We can have a meeting of minds on that at least. I had never dreamt of thinking you were. If you think others had done I wholeheartedly support you correcting them.

I think, and I'm no expert either, that gravity is instantaneous like when electrons jump energy levels without having to make a time consuming journey.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Jul, 2008 08:56 pm

You can't say something is debunked and then reference a crackpot web site as support. That's just silly.

That's like me saying Santa Clause is real and then asking a 3 year old for her opinion as evidence.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 02:44 am
And all the web-sites referenced (and blogs) on the ID thread are not crackpot I suppose.

It's only the ones gunga quotes that are crackpot eh?
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 04:53 am
I forced gunga to look up the Kopeikin experiment and, when he found a website that followed his own pre conceived notions., he posted it.

Kopelkins experiment has been discussed heavily and the mainsteream has stated that , yes the OBSERVATIONS were goverened by C , HOWEVER, THE PHENOMENON OBSERVED WAS ALSO GOVERNED BY c.

i SEE THAT mETARESEARCH CONSIDERS ITSELF AN "ALTERNATIVE VIEWPOINT" (FREE OF SUBSTANCE AND DATA=my addition)
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 05:26 am
gungasnake wrote:
parados wrote:
I am curious how gravity doesn't make things revolve around a center point.

2 objects of the same size would revolve around an area between them.

Could you explain your theory of gravity to us Gunga?



Simple observation really... The basic density of space is about one microscopic dust mote every four miles if you don't believe in "dark matter(TM)" (I don't), or about one microscopic dust mote every fifth of a mile if you do.

Here's what I mean. If you were to adopt a scale at which our solar system was about a yard across, then our sun would be about the size of a dust mote whose diameter was about the width of a human hair, and the nearest other star, Alpha Centauri, would be just over four miles away.

Moreover, that's fairly typical of space in general; even in bright star clusters which glow together, those kinds of size/distance relationships hold. At least inside galaxies; in intergalactic space it would be worse.

If you postulate dark matter comprising 95% of the universe, then you shorten the distance between dust motes to about a fifth of a mile, i.e. two of those little marker signs on highways.

Gravity simply cannot hold dust motes together at those kinds of distances. Electromagnetic forces however could.

First of all, you don't know that that's what the scientists referred to were saying, secondly, you haven't defined "hold together," and thirdly, you haven't presented the calculation to support your statement that it wouldn't "hold dust motes together" or that electromagnetic forces would. Just out of curiosity, how would electromagnetic forces exert a strong influence on uncharged objects?
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 05:30 am
gungasnake wrote:
Einstein said that information could not be passed around any faster than C. Nonetheless, any time you take five steps you are sending a gravitational message out into the void and somebody on the far side of the galaxy with a sufficiently sensitive instrument could read that message in real time; it would not take 50,000 years to get to him.

Think about it. You might even call that a sort of a "thought experiment", if you're into that sort of thing...

No, the propagation of gravitational influence is at the speed of light.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jul, 2008 05:53 am
Some of the confusion might arise from the difference between gravity WAVES, assuming such a thing exists which is a gigantic assumption, and the force of gravity itself.

Gravity WAVES, again assuming they exist, would certainly propagate at C.

Nonetheless the fact that the basic force of gravity is instantaneous to within our ability to measure it, has been known for centuries. Our own solar system would fly apart pretty quicklyif there were any noticable delay in the force of gravity acting on each of the planets from the sun and that's been known at least since LaPlace.
0 Replies
 
 

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