Laminin

Jesus was executed on a stauros, Gr., meaning stake. There is no justification to assume it was in any shape other than a pole.

neologist wrote:

Jesus was executed on a stauros, Gr., meaning stake. There is no justification to assume it was in any shape other than a pole.

I did not realize this neo. What was done with Jesus' hands, arms, etc. during the execution? I assumed that part of the reasoning behind the cross was for proper weight distribution & balance.

baddog1 wrote:

neologist wrote:

Jesus was executed on a stauros, Gr., meaning stake. There is no justification to assume it was in any shape other than a pole.

I did not realize this neo. What was done with Jesus' hands, arms, etc. during the execution? I assumed that part of the reasoning behind the cross was for proper weight distribution & balance.

What could possibly lead you to believe that the Romans cared about "proper weight distribution and balance" when they were executing someone by a means intended to suffocate them from the inability to properly use the muscles of the pulmonary system?

I'll note the hilarity of the research that must go into these creationist "finds". This is like seeing Jesus in a cheese sandwich only in this case one actually has to fudge quite a bit - the cross-like model listed is only one of many possible representations and conformations and the one they glom onto because it looks like Jezus's cross is one of the most simplified versions (simplified = accuracy sacrificed for abstract utility).

Here's some actual laminin for an idea of the floppiness: http://flux.aps.org/meetings/YR98/BAPSMAR98/vpr/lncopy.jpg .

Of course someone will inevitably try to say it's close enough, which kinda misses the point, eh?

If you were being executed (most particularly if intended to be a slow-death) - don't you think that you would throw a fit? Wriggling, writhing, twisting, doing whatever you could to escape? By securing one's arms outbound; movement would be much limited, thus reducing the opportunity for the stake to be swayed side to side.

Is it bad that I found that part of the "Bullshit!" (Penn & Teller) episode with the guy recreating the crucifixion completely and utterly hilarious? It's like painful humor: the guy's an MD but wears his official white coat for the presentation + camera and proceeds to "simulate" the crucifixion through someone's hands by strapping on some big leather glove things and attaching them to the cross. Because if there's one thing we know, it's that they nailed stiff leather gloves to the cross and then made Jesus hold on real good.

I bring this up because apparently there's a need to defend the historical accuracy of the method used and it reminded me of that show .

baddog1 wrote:

If you were being executed (most particularly if intended to be a slow-death) - don't you think that you would throw a fit? Wriggling, writhing, twisting, doing whatever you could to escape? By securing one's arms outbound; movement would be much limited, thus reducing the opportunity for the stake to be swayed side to side.

You still don't understand the actual mechanism of execution. When one is strung up by one's wrists, with the full weight of the body hanging down and outward, the muscles of the pulmonary system cannot properly operate. You'd not be wriggling for long, but it would still take a long time for you to suffocate.

The chances of swaying the stake from side to side would be slim to none. The Romans had places of execution in which they erected the posts from which people were executed. They well anchored.

The errors in depiction of the alleged execution of the putative Jesus are just part of one more reason to consider the entire dog and pony show to be so much horsie poop.

Ah but you so enjoy talking about Jesus and his experiences don't you? Most times you slip your disclaimer into the hind-end of the conversation - but that's OK; you're still talking about him. Bravo! :wink: