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Is it a sacrifice?

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Is it a sacrifice to give up your life for a cause, given that death is an inevitability in any case?

Further, given that death is the cessation of all experience, how can death be a sacrifice if there is no awareness of the loss?

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It's a sacrifice to the extent that one might not have died as soon, or as painfully, horribly, messily . . . i really can't understand why you ask such a question. Do you really not understand the definition of sacrifice, or are you just being willfully obtuse in the hope of starting a discussion? A discussion of what . . . definitions?

That crap about "awareness of loss" doesn't merit an answer.

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chumly wrote:

Is it a sacrifice to give up your life for a cause, given that death is an inevitability in any case?

If death is an inevitability under all conditions, it is not a sacrifice. If there is a choice, and one's life, to the individual, is less important than the cause, then it is not a sacrifice. If there is a choice and the cause is less important than one's existence, then it is a sacrifice.

For instance, if a wife, who would not want to live without her husband, dies in order to save him, it is not a sacrifice. If the same woman goes to her death to save a stranger, it IS a sacrifice.

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I looks as if Setanta has not entirely lost his inclination for mildly acerbic text.

Thanks for the post Phoenix32890, the topic may have its moments.

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It is not a sacrifice if the one doing it does not care about a long life. There are more than a few who desire to burn brightly and don't mind at all that they likely while burn out (die) early. I think that we get a little brain washed with all the chatter about if we do this or don't do that that we will live on average x.k years longer, the assumption being that everyone cares about that. The right mix of quality/quantity of anything, and in particular life, is not the same for everyone. If my life is better because of my devotion to a cause, and I care mostly about quality of life not quantity, then giving up my life for that cause might be no sacrifice at all.

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Does "sacri-fice" not mean sacred act?

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Quote:

sac·ri·fice (skr-fs)
n.
1.
a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
b. A victim offered in this way.
2.
a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
b. Something so forfeited.
3.
a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
b. Something so relinquished.
c. A loss so sustained.
4. Baseball A sacrifice hit or sacrifice fly.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sacrifice

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Re: Is it a sacrifice?

Chumly wrote:

Further, given that death is the cessation of all experience, how can death be a sacrifice if there is no awareness of the loss?

It is a sacrifice for the time period between making the decision and actual death.

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I guess the process itself could be called the sacrifice, but in addition to JLN's valid views, sacrifice does seem to mean that you would need to give up something of consequence, in this case what is often called the "ultimate sacrifice".

However I'm not convinced the process is the effect. In any case, as per

JLNobody wrote:

Does "sacred-fice" not mean sacred act?

can the giving of one's life be sacred?

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It may seem so from the POV of the sacrificer. It would seem to be an extraordinary "sacred" act, as opposed to an ordinary "profane" act. This distinction (sacred-profane) is usually in a religious context, but not necessarily so.

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And how well does that apply given moral relativism and the popular viewpoint?

Does the WWII Kamikaze pilot "deserve" the moniker as aptly as the WWII Allied MIA (missing-in-action)?

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Re: Is it a sacrifice?

Chumly wrote:

given that death is the cessation of all experience

an unproven assumption

do you have evidence that this is so?

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The spoiler comes early and easily when you post:

- A "given" is understood by definition to be axiomatic for the in-context conditions.

- Your feeble attempt to coral me into trying to prove a negative is vaguely amusing at best.

- You're welcome to believe in fairies and gnomes if you're so inclined.

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Re: Is it a sacrifice?

Chumly wrote:

Is it a sacrifice to give up your life for a cause,
given that death is an inevitability in any case?

Well, as several of your posters
(including a certain authoritarian pinko, who requires no additional identification)
have indicated, the sacrifice inheres in the martyr 's forfeiture
of the length of time that he 'd have lived in the absence of his sacrifice.

Quote:

Further, given that death is the cessation of all experience,
how can death be a sacrifice if there is no awareness of the loss?

I wish to challenge your assumption.
I suspect that death is a fake
and I question that disintegration of the material flesh n bones
necessarily entails the cessation of all experience.

However, for purposes of argument,
and to avoid going off topic, I certainly am willing to put that issue aside.

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Chumly wrote:

I guess the process itself could be called the sacrifice, but in addition to JLN's valid views,
sacrifice does seem to mean that you would need to give up something of consequence,
in this case what is often called the "ultimate sacrifice".

If it is not
the ultimate sacrifice, does that mean that there will be subsequent sacrifices ?

( just asking )

Quote:

However I'm not convinced the process is the effect. In any case, as per
JLNobody wrote:
Does "sacred-fice" not mean sacred act?

can the giving of one's life be sacred?

Does accurate information on that point
require viewing the situation from the perspective of the Diety to Whom it may be sacred ?

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ODavid, it depends on the ideology, doesn't it? Remember that the Aztecs and their predecessors believed their very existence resulted from self-sacrifices by their gods. In religious consequence the Mesoamerican Indian beneficiares of these SACRIFICES believed themselves to be obliged to sacrifice themselves and their neighbors to the gods: an expression, perhaps, of the universal sociological principle: "the norm of reciprocity".

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there would be time lost, so it would be a sacrifice.

you sacrificed the rest of your time spent able to be spent consiously

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Question

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JLNobody wrote:

ODavid, it depends on the ideology, doesn't it?

I believe that it does not.
If the Diety involved does not care about it,
then its not sacred.

An ideology that asserted that object X
is sacred wud be in error, on that point.

Quote:

Remember that the Aztecs and their predecessors believed
their very existence resulted from self-sacrifices by their gods.

I don t.
I am not up-to-date on Aztec theology.

Quote:

In religious consequence the Mesoamerican Indian beneficiares of these SACRIFICES
believed themselves to be obliged to sacrifice themselves and their neighbors
to the gods: an expression, perhaps, of the universal sociological principle:
"the norm of reciprocity".

Did thay have good luck with that ?

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Rolling Eyes

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