Oh come all ye faithful.

It's in contradiction to the tradition(s) of the two large popular Christian churches (Catholic church and Evangelical Church of Germany) here.

So those, a really very small minority, are only to be found in a few sectarian churches.

Not all Born Agains handle serpents--or speak in tongues.

The US is infested with these people who think they are the only ones who have it right (no pun intended}. They come in all shapes, colors and backgrounds. It is most annoying when you end up on a bus or train next to them and they open with the sentence, "Hi I'm Elsie Mae. Have you given your life to Christ?". A few will back off if you hiss at them, but many will try again because they believe they are scoring "Jesus points" and maybe you will be their friend in heaven. I had much more tolerance for these people before they got into The White House. I hate to admit it, but they have changed the way I see all Christians - and it's not for the better. I apologize to all the normal Christians in the room if I have ever offended you with my hostilities.

The following definition of "born again" is from Wikipedia and I think it explains it better than I can:

Quote:

Born again is a term used primarily in the Fundamentalist, Evangelical, and Pentecostal branches of Protestant Christianity, where it is associated with salvation, conversion and spiritual rebirth...

The idea of being born again carries with it the theological idea that a Christian is a new creation, given a fresh start by the action of God, freed from a sinful past life and able to begin a new life in relationship with Christ via the Holy Spirit. John Wesley and Christians associated with early Methodism referred to the born again experience as 'the New Birth'.

In recent history, born again is a term that has been associated with evangelical renewal since the late 1960s, first in the United States and then later around the world. Associated perhaps initially with Jesus People and the Christian counterculture, born again came to refer to an intense conversion experience, and was increasingly used as a term to identify devout believers."

My understanding of the term "born again Christian" is someone who:

1) Believes that there is a heaven and a hell.

2) Believes that believing in Jesus is the only way to get to Heaven (this implies that other religions will not be able to go to heaven).

3) Believes that the Bible is the word of God. There is some wiggle room as to what this means, but a born again Christian is someone who bases their beliefs on the Bible.

This is my understanding of the term as someone who once fit this category.

dlowan wrote:

...I don't know if other religions get born again???????...

We Jews are only born once, as it was pain enough the first time. Or so our mothers tell us.

Different brands, rabbit.

Fundamentalist Christianity, also known as Christian Fundamentalism or Fundamentalist Evangelicalism, is a movement that arose mainly within British and American Protestantism in the late 19th and early 20th centuries among conservative evangelical Christians, who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a fundamental set of Christian beliefs: the inerrancy of the Bible, Sola Scriptura, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the imminent personal return of Jesus Christ.

...The Christian fundamentalist movement evolved during the early-to-mid 1900s to become separatist in nature and more characteristically dispensational in its theology. Most fundamentalists strongly disagree with doctrines and practices of the Roman Catholic Church for theological reasons, although in recent years there has been an increase in political cooperation between individuals in both groups on certain social issues, such as in opposing abortion. However, the relationships between Fundamentalist Christians and others are still often strained due to historical/cultural perceptions and strongly divergent views on a number of theological issues.

JPB wrote:

ossobuco wrote:

I read a lot of religious tomes in my day, back then based on my own religion, roman catholicism. Doubt and rehab from doubt a continuing theme. Thomas Merton, a best seller born again in a way.. Not to mock him, I still have respect, not that what I respected when I read Seven Story Mountain would hold up for me now, but that I respect the journey.


But, he wasn't a fundy as such.

Merton actually had a second conversion, osso, which liberated much of his Catholic doctrinal beliefs. He espoused liberal Catholicism (I chuckled the first time someone told me they were a liberal Catholic -- didn't know it was possible).

Born again usually refers to a first conversion -- accepting the concept of Original Sin, the crucifixion of Christ as redemption for OS and salvation through faith rather than works.

Second conversion refers to moving past all that and accepting a relationship with the divine without constrict to dogma (a la Merton, the Dali Lama, Rumi, and other mystics).

You have me all confused with this. So...some people just keep on and on getting born again????

Perhaps you meant to write hypocritical . . . although hypercritical does have a certain poignant irony when it comes to bible-thumpers.

Oh come all ye faithful.

Question 2.

jespah wrote:

dlowan wrote:

...I don't know if other religions get born again???????...

We Jews are only born once, as it was pain enough the first time. Or so our mothers tell us.

So...what DOES happen to Jews when they die?????

Ticomaya wrote:

Different brands, rabbit.

Oh? What brands, and how do they differ, please!

Questions I have always wanted to ask the religious.



1. Are all "born-agains" (christian, I mean...I don't know if other religions get born again???????...well, I guess people who believe in reincarnation do, but not in the same way)of necessity fundamentalists, or are there different brands, as it were?

I don't know, msolga, and I've been here 63 some years.

dlowan wrote:

Questions I have always wanted to ask the religious.



1. Are all "born-agains" (christian, I mean...I don't know if other religions get born again???????...well, I guess people who believe in reincarnation do, but not in the same way)of necessity fundamentalists, or are there different brands, as it were?

A question I've always (well, recently) wanted to ask, if I may.

How come "born agains" are such strong supporters of patriotism & war? I refer to the US variety of "born agains", in particular. What does patriotism have to do with religious faith? I am sincerely perplexed by this. I honestly don't get it. Please correct me if I'm wrong in my perception, but it seems to me to be as much a political movement (in the US) as a religious one ...

Yeah. How come?

In my neck of the woods Christians are some of the strongest supporters of the oppressed in our own community & in other places on the planet. I have the greatest respect & also fondness for them. I've marched in the same anti-war rallies as huge contingents of Christian groups - young & old, progressive & conservative. It is almost unthinkable for them to have supported the invasion of Iraq, say ....
But perhaps they weren't the "born again" variety?