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Logical Fallacy of Assumption?

 
 
SCoates
 
Reply Wed 23 Jan, 2008 11:27 pm
I am teaching persuasive papers to 12th graders, and I have been presented with the following argument.

Thesis: Abortion is unethical as soon as the fetus shows brain activity.
Support: (In our state) euthanasia is illegal when the body shows brain activity.
Therefore, it is wrong to abort a fetus with brain activity.

I'm having trouble convincing my students that the argument is unacceptable. It is difficult for me to word why. I find the argument logically offensive as it presumes the audience agrees that euthanasia is unethical, and equates "illegal" with "wrong."

Does this fall into a categorized logical fallacy? How would you demonstrate the weakness of this argument to a conservative classroom that unanimously agrees with the support?

I asked if they were debating homosexuality with an atheist whether it would be appropriate to quote the Bible for support, and they basically agreed it would not. But they still press the original issue and argue "why does it matter if we all agree?"

I can't simply argue "because I disagree."

Any suggestions would be appreciated, but I am particularly interested to find a definition for this flaw, or perhaps some better examples.

Thanks.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 12:32 am
Quote:
Thesis: Abortion is unethical as soon as the fetus shows brain activity.
Support: (In our state) euthanasia is illegal when the body shows brain activity.
Therefore, it is wrong to abort a fetus with brain activity.


I think you're going to have to show that euthanasia is ethical in certain cases to defeat these kids. I had thought that blatham had a post covering logical fallacies, but I sure couldn't find it.

So, where you been, boy. This place has been almost unbearably grim since you got all unhumorous, and left.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 03:46 am
JoefromChicago is the guy for "logical analysis" !

It seems to me that the thesis about "ethics" transcends "logic". There is no "logical" problem with the basic argument based on premises like "the sanctity of (human) life" and "brain activity constitutes life", All problems stem from the justification of the first premise (although we might note that justification of the second premise may involve discussion of the concept "human" which itself has religious overtones).

Beyond religious dogma supporting the "sanctity" premise, justification is erroded when we consider "quality of life", as opposed to "life" itself. (and "ethics" is that aspect of "quality" concerned with living with our conscience). Discounting dogma (which your conservatives may be unable to do without loss of self-intgrity), the abortion issue is about weighing the "rights" of the fetus against the "rights" of the parents to quality of life, NOT "life" per se. Quality of life is also the central theme in euthanasia. On the other hand, since "quality" and "rights" are also nebulous, there appear to be no general solutions.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 05:46 am
SCoates-

It may be that your class is prepared to accept the received wisdom of their spiritual leaders who they assume can be relied upon to have determined these issues over centuries of theological debate using processes which are completely above their heads the details of which they are none too keen to expose themselves to.

They may well suspect that you are using your position to try to foist a secular aganda upon them for reasons of your own. It is a little suspicious that the three things you mention are abortion, euthenasia and homosexuality each one of which is a "litmus" test issue for such an agenda.

I'm not sure what you mean by "persuasive papers". If it is to do with methods of persuasion you have a whole library to go at on that subject without the need to go anywhere near emotive issues.

It can easily be shown that "why does it matter if we all agree?" is an unsuitable argument by referring to Nuremburg Rallies, Slalem trials, cannibalism, head hunting, human sacrifice, polygamy, suicide bombers, partisan football fans, masonic lodges etc etc etc.

roger wrote-

Quote:
So, where you been, boy. This place has been almost unbearably grim since you got all unhumorous, and left.


On behalf of A2Kers everywhere I would like to thank you for your vote of confidence in us. I'm sure we all agree with your persuasive statement that the rest of us are "almost unbearably grim" and "unhumorous" and not wishing to expose ourselves to such censures we will all piss off to another site and leave you and SCoats to yourselves.

How anybody could possibly think that somebody who says what you said has anything useful to offer to a 12th grade class is outside the limits of my comprehension faculties. Perhaps you ought to read How To Win Friends and Influence People.

Almost every post of blatham's that I have read is shot through with logical fallacies. He actually thinks that his assertions represent objective truth on the evidence of his having made them. He is an expert in logical fallacy.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 09:29 am
Re: Logical Fallacy of Assumption?
SCoates wrote:
Thesis: Abortion is unethical as soon as the fetus shows brain activity.
Support: (In our state) euthanasia is illegal when the body shows brain activity.
Therefore, it is wrong to abort a fetus with brain activity.

I'm having trouble convincing my students that the argument is unacceptable. It is difficult for me to word why. I find the argument logically offensive as it presumes the audience agrees that euthanasia is unethical, and equates "illegal" with "wrong."

There are two issues here: (1) the general question -- is the argument logically sound? and (2) the specific question -- can we equate "immoral" with "illegal?" I'll take the second, easier question first.

If we can agree that it is immoral to break the law, then it is rather easy to conclude that what is illegal is also immoral. After all, to act illegally is, by definition, to act in contravention to the law, and so every illegal act is also immoral to the extent that it is immoral to break the law. Thus, if euthanasia is illegal, then committing euthanasia is also immoral. Whether euthanasia is immoral as an act (i.e. divorced from its legal consequences) is another question entirely, but fortunately it's not one that we have to deal with in this context.

The second question is rather interesting, and I commend your students for coming up with a fairly sophisticated argument (that reflects well on the teacher, no doubt). It's not a good argument, mind you, but it's at least better than a lot of the other anti-abortion arguments that one runs across these days.

As I see it, the argument boils down to this syllogism:
    (1) People and fetuses (after a certain gestational stage) both display brain activity; (2) There is a moral rule forbidding us to kill people who display brain activity; (3) Therefore, it should be immoral for us to kill fetuses who display brain activity.


The first proposition is, I think, non-controversial, but the second is suspect. Just because it is immoral to kill people who display brain activity, it doesn't necessarily follow that it is immoral to kill them because they display brain activity. The argument, therefore, has to rely on an unstated proposition:
    (2)(a) Brain activity is the sole criterion upon which we judge whether a thing may be killed or not.
But that obviously isn't true. All animals with brains display some sort of brain activity, but we kill animals all the time -- and not just for purposes of euthanasia. We kill animals for food, for sport, for convenience, for financial gain, and for all sorts of other reasons. So proposition (2)(a) cannot form one of the premises for conclusion (3), as it would lead us to conclude that it would be immoral for us to kill anything that displays brain activity, and it's unlikely that any of your students would want to go that far in their argument.

To make the syllogism work, then, the unstated premise must look something like this:
    (2)(b) Brain activity is the sole criterion upon which we judge whether a [i]person[/i] may be killed or not.
This premise avoids the problem of over-inclusiveness by restricting the argument solely to people. But premise (2)(b) relies upon a non-common term: "person." In order for the conclusion (3) to follow from this premise, we have to assume that "fetuses" are "persons" (to see why this is true, substitute "dogs" for "fetuses" in the syllogism). That assumption, however, is not warranted. Indeed, most people* would argue that the fetus's personhood is the central question in the abortion debate.

Your students' argument, therefore, rests upon a classic logical fallacy: it begs the question. In simpler terms, your students are assuming that which they are required to prove.** In this case, they are assuming that fetuses are persons (and thus are subject to the same ethical principles as persons) when, in fact, they are obligated to prove that fetuses are persons. For if fetuses are not persons, then your students' euthanasia argument doesn't make any sense.


*I'm not one of them.
** I think you had a vague sort of grasp of this point when you used the analogy of the Christian relying the bible to make an argument about the immorality of homosexuality. That would be another example of question begging.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 10:08 am
Quote:
If we can agree that it is immoral to break the law, then it is rather easy to conclude that what is illegal is also immoral.


This too raises an interesting dilemma for conservative students.

If it is unethical to break the law then are abortion protesters that are arrested for breaking the law acting unethically or immorally?
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 10:47 am
Roger- I've been finishing up college. Maybe college made me boring.

Spendius- You presume that disagree with the conclusion of my students. I merely object to the argument. My agenda is to have them develop good support for their opinions, whatever they are. As for the issues, it was an open-topic paper, and this is what my students have chosen to debate.

Joe- Thanks. I wanted to say there was some sort of circular reasoning, but I'm not really a pro at debate. Some times I just pretend to be for kicks.

So everyone seems to agree that there is no real logical fallacy, only perhaps a persuasive flaw?
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 11:20 am
Joe,

1. I see you equate "immoral" with "unethical" and go on to speak of immorality and lawbreaking. Is that valid in the specific context of the hippocratic oath which presumably underscores the word "ethics" here?

Quote:
Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God


2. There may be as much weight of argument against the "personhood" of some elderly (etc) patients as there is for fetuses. It is presumably the function of the law to eliminate doubt by removing "personhood" from the agenda and rely only on "evidence of human life". In that sense is not the argument from the law about euthanasia equally applicable to fetuses ?

(I should add that I am personally pro-abortion and pro-euthanasia).
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 12:44 pm
fresco wrote:
Joe,

1. I see you equate "immoral" with "unethical" and go on to speak of immorality and lawbreaking. Is that valid in the specific context of the hippocratic oath which presumably underscores the word "ethics" here?

Quote:
Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God

As presented by SCoates, the students' argument relied on the illegality of euthanasia, not on the fact that euthanasia might violate medical ethics. It would be a different argument if the students focused on the Hippocratic Oath, but it wouldn't be a stronger argument.

fresco wrote:
2. There may be as much weight of argument against the "personhood" of some elderly patients as there is for fetuses. It is presumably the function of the law to eliminate doubt by removing "personhood" from the agenda and rely only on "evidence of human life". In that sense is not the argument from the law about euthanasia equally applicable to fetuses ?

(I should add that I am personally pro-abortion and pro-euthanasia).

I'm not aware of anyone taking the position that euthanasia is acceptable when it is performed on a "non-person." In contrast, there is a great deal of debate over whether abortion is acceptable because the fetus is a "non-person." And I'm not sure we clarify either the euthanasia issue or the abortion issue if we turn away from the "personhood" debate and focus our attention on whether there is "evidence of human life." That strikes me as two sides of the same coin.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 12:46 pm
SCoates wrote:
So everyone seems to agree that there is no real logical fallacy, only perhaps a persuasive flaw?

Begging the question is a logical fallacy.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 01:23 pm
Joe,

I concede point 1, but by the same argument of what SCoates presented,
since the students did not seem to introduce the "non-person" issue, but instead referred to "evidence of human life" I don't see them as "question begging"...merely simplistic.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 01:43 pm
fresco wrote:
Joe,

I concede point 1, but by the same argument of what SCoates presented,
since the students did not seem to introduce the "non-person" issue, but instead referred to "evidence of life" I don't see them as "question begging"...merely simplistic.

Well, the students didn't say anything about "evidence of life" either, they said "brain activity." Regardless, their argument doesn't make any sense unless they implicitly equate fetuses with persons.

Look at it this way: the students say "we can't euthanize someone who still has brain activity, so it follows that we can't kill a fetus that has brain activity." Now, the reason why the second rule follows from the first isn't because persons and fetuses share the common characteristic of brain activity. As I mentioned above, if that were the case the students would be arguing that it is immoral to kill anything with brain activity, and that can't be true (except maybe for some doctrinaire Jainist in the class). So there must be something else that makes persons and fetuses alike, so that the ethical rules for persons also apply to fetuses. I think it's pretty clear that the students rely on the unstated assumption that the one thing that makes the rules for persons applicable to fetuses is their common "personhood." That assumption, however, begs the question, since fetal "personhood" remains to be proven.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 02:27 pm
We differ on the assumptions implied by euthanasia/brain activity.
I see this as an assumption about "human life" not "life" per se whereas you see this as an assumption about "personhood". I base my interpretation on the theological backdrop likely to be familiar to such students as opposed to the complexities of "person" definition which tend to be the province of philosophers.

But I will not labour the point, and enjoyed the exchange.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 04:54 pm
So, the best explanation I see (avoiding the complication of personhood) is as follows:

The conclusion is that it is wrong to terminate brain activity.
The support is that it is wrong to terminate brain activity.
Therefore the support requires the acceptance of the conclusion.

Now I just need a more obvious example of this flaw. Can anyone point me in the direction of Wikipedia?
0 Replies
 
Shapeless
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 05:38 pm
There's a handy site called the Fallacy Files that may be of some use to you. (The link I provided goes directly to their Question Begging discussion.)
0 Replies
 
blindsided
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:03 pm
Re: Logical Fallacy of Assumption?
SCoates wrote:
I am teaching persuasive papers to 12th graders, and I have been presented with the following argument.

Thesis: Abortion is unethical as soon as the fetus shows brain activity.
Support: (In our state) euthanasia is illegal when the body shows brain activity.
Therefore, it is wrong to abort a fetus with brain activity.

I'm having trouble convincing my students that the argument is unacceptable. It is difficult for me to word why. I find the argument logically offensive as it presumes the audience agrees that euthanasia is unethical, and equates "illegal" with "wrong."

Does this fall into a categorized logical fallacy? How would you demonstrate the weakness of this argument to a conservative classroom that unanimously agrees with the support?

I asked if they were debating homosexuality with an atheist whether it would be appropriate to quote the Bible for support, and they basically agreed it would not. But they still press the original issue and argue "why does it matter if we all agree?"

I can't simply argue "because I disagree."

Any suggestions would be appreciated, but I am particularly interested to find a definition for this flaw, or perhaps some better examples.

Thanks.


You are a teacher, so I guess I can't blame you for being so bias( So many liberal teachers). Maybe you should let your students form their own ideas and their own politics, instead of trying to throw your views on them?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 07:34 pm
Re: Logical Fallacy of Assumption?
Logical thinking isn't exactly a viewpoint or politics.

Their argument is basically this:
(In our state) euthanasia is illegal when the body shows brain activity.
fetuses have brain activity
Therefore, it is wrong to abort a fetus with brain activity.

Is euthanasia the same as abortion? Why are they the same and why are they different? Is it political to know they are different?
Is "illegal" the same as "wrong"? Does that mean that protesters that violate the law when they protest at abortion clinics are wrong? Morality and legality don't always agree.
Is a fetus the same as a body? Does everybody think it is?

Like Joe pointed out, they are making certain assumptions that others might not agree with.

If they assume everyone thinks the way they do then they won't be able to form logical arguments so will never be able to convince anyone that might disagree with them.
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 08:31 pm
Re: Logical Fallacy of Assumption?
blindsided wrote:
SCoates wrote:
I am teaching persuasive papers to 12th graders, and I have been presented with the following argument.

Thesis: Abortion is unethical as soon as the fetus shows brain activity.
Support: (In our state) euthanasia is illegal when the body shows brain activity.
Therefore, it is wrong to abort a fetus with brain activity.

I'm having trouble convincing my students that the argument is unacceptable. It is difficult for me to word why. I find the argument logically offensive as it presumes the audience agrees that euthanasia is unethical, and equates "illegal" with "wrong."

Does this fall into a categorized logical fallacy? How would you demonstrate the weakness of this argument to a conservative classroom that unanimously agrees with the support?

I asked if they were debating homosexuality with an atheist whether it would be appropriate to quote the Bible for support, and they basically agreed it would not. But they still press the original issue and argue "why does it matter if we all agree?"

I can't simply argue "because I disagree."

Any suggestions would be appreciated, but I am particularly interested to find a definition for this flaw, or perhaps some better examples.

Thanks.


You are a teacher, so I guess I can't blame you for being so bias( So many liberal teachers). Maybe you should let your students form their own ideas and their own politics, instead of trying to throw your views on them?


I'm interested to hear you describe my bias, as you see it.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 09:24 pm
(Gee, I thought Roger was being droll re S. Coates.)
0 Replies
 
SCoates
 
  1  
Reply Thu 24 Jan, 2008 09:41 pm
(Why are we talking in parentheses?)
0 Replies
 
 

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